was wondering if the safety 21 cages were approved for clubracing.. these are made by cusco, but are the mild steel versions made for their race cars.. not the chromoly versions for street cars.

 

If they all look like the one pictured on page #122 of the Aug 04 GRM, then no.

 

Would you actually trust yourself in a race with this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you actually trust yourself in a race with this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could ask the same about autopower cages too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You could ask the same about autopower cages too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are several major differences.

The autopowers have...
- better a-pillar supports (fewer bends).
- door bars
- diagonals in main hoop
- harness bar in main hoop
- correctly sleeved joints (can't tell for Cusco's in pics, but previous images I've seen show u-joint connections instead of sleeves).
- the correct materials to meet sanctioning body rules (no idea if Cusco is or not)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You could ask the same about autopower cages too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

At least Autopower cages conform to this, from the NASA CCR (The SCCA GCR is similar, but their pdf is copy protected so no cut/paste):

15.5.7 Diagonal Brace
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. One end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the corner, or horizontal part, of the main hoop above the driver's head, within twelve (12) inches of the driver's-side corner. The other end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the mounting plate (or to the main hoop as close to the mounting plate as practically possible) diagonally opposed to the driver's head (passenger floor).


None of the cages shown above have the diagonal brace on the main hoop.

BTW, don't we see these bars about every six months here, and give the same answer every time?
.

 

It's a little short-sighted to simply dismiss Cusco cages as crap without defining WHY...

I've seen custom welded cages from reputable builders with the "bend here" A-pillar down tubes (with those Z-bends). If the tubing meets SCCA rules (or those of your sanctioning body), and the pick-up points are legal - in terms of number and size - then what is the beef?

Bolted joints? Safety Devices has used "double-saddle" bolted connections for decades and I've seen the engineering data demostrating that they are as strong as the welded joints in the same cage.

Cage design is tricky and we all have to be critical thinkers when it comes to this issue...

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vovinamer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">was wondering if the safety 21 cages were approved for clubracing.. these are made by cusco, but are the mild steel versions made for their race cars.. not the chromoly versions for street cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would it matter?

Since that is a tite JDM piece I would imagine you are going to pay a hefty sum for it. Use that money on a custom built cage which, even though made here in America, will be a better fit and as a result, more effective.

EDIT: I am thinking that the bolt-together "hinge" joints would be a major bone of contention with tech:

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you actually trust yourself in a race with this?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a picture from Cusco, not Safety Devices. They may be related, but given that Cusco is a Japanese company and SD is in the UK it's obviously a loose relationship... probably SD making bars for Cusco to rebrand.

The SD cages are available with considerably more support structure than what's pictured. Visit their website if you care to learn more. They do not show diagrams of exact models though. From what I have seen, however, they still would not meet the specs of most groups running in the US - the most obvious is the lack of main-hoop diagonal - which seems to be a feature missing from most non-US specs.

 

After re-reading the original post I realized that you were asking about Safety 21 and not Safety Devices - leaving my previous post incorrect. I'll leave it just for reference though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am thinking that the bolt-together "hinge" joints would be a major bone of contention with tech:</TD></TR></TABLE>

As would the direction of the main hoop diagonal, as the unit is designed for RHD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As would the direction of the main hoop diagonal</TD></TR></TABLE>

The main hoop doesn't have a diagonal.

The hinge in the upper left connects to the lower right rear down-tube just above the fender well.

 

incorrect you can have the diagonal. on those cages, look at the picture again there are TWO mounts on the upper passanger side of the main hoop. safty 21 cages and cusco cages do have the option of the diagnol and it does go the wrong way, as there have been many many topic's about this and there have been pictures of the safty 21 cage with the diagonal going from passanger top to driver bottom. (all of this is in retrospective of a LHD car)<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The main hoop doesn't have a diagonal.

The hinge in the upper left connects to the lower right rear down-tube just above the fender well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">incorrect you can have the diagonal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't say they couldn't have a diagonal. What I said is that the one pictured doesn't have a diagonal. The 2 hinges on the passenger side are:

1. The pass. side down tube to the fender
2. Diagonal to the driver's side rear stay down tube

Look at the other pics on his site documenting that install. There is no diagonal. Here is the leg where the main hoop diagonal would go to:



Note that there is no mount for it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Look at the other pics on his site documenting that install. There is no diagonal. </TD></TR></TABLE>

2 words: Zip Ties

 

yeah.... it looks like that cage is screwed or riveted in... not bolted in

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSiTurbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah.... it looks like that cage is screwed or riveted in... not bolted in </TD></TR></TABLE>

No you f00l, you've got it all wrong. It was stapled in!

 

ye-YEAH!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Build a custom cage for extra points and get stares from chimps and chicks alike.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Would I trust a bolt in cage to stay in place if I crash doing 140? NO

Would I trust it at 65? NO

A true racing spec rollcage should be made specially by a real race shop out of DOM or Chromoly (if you can do it right and pay for it).

My life (as I see it) is worth the $2k in rollcage

Rules are changed every year (depending on organization and class), so its really important you find out exactly what is needed from the cage and you.

Rich

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A true racing spec rollcage should be made specially by a real race shop out of DOM or Chromoly (if you can do it right and pay for it).</TD></TR></TABLE>

My bolt-in cage was built by a real race shop (http://www.kirkracing.com) out of 1.75" DOM (my car only requires 1.5"). It is SCCA and NASA legal and is built in excess of their required specifications.

You should probably think a little more before you speak.