Safe Legend dual piston caliper installation into a 4gen prelude
I have bought a nice set of legend calipers (thanks a lot for user Pentaq) over one month ago. I have installed them yesterday. It took me so long to create a good and SAFE setup.
I have spent a lot of time reading the threads about it. Some people install them "as they are" - legend brackets and calipers, some others use prelude brackets and legend calipers, etc...
The most important problem I realized is that legend discs are 28 mm instead of 23 mm prelude discs. The 4gen prelude disc is 4 bolt and legend is 5 bolt one - legend discs cannot be used. I haven't found any trace of 4gen prelude 28 mm usable discs on the market (maybe if you make some kind a custom set, but it would cost a fortune I think...).
If you use legend brackets on prelude discs it generates a serious danger, worn pads can become thin enough to drop between disc and bracket, which would probably cause wheel blocking. Imagine what would happen if you drive 100 mph for exemple and one of your front wheels becomes blocked.......... So DO NOT USE 28 mm LEGEND BRACKETS!!!! USE PRELUDE VTEC 23 mm ONES!!!
The legend calipers are designed for a 28 mm disc too. If you put them on prelude 23 mm discs, into initial position (new discs and pads), the pistons are already 5 mm out (=as 5 mm worn pads on legend). The problem is when you would have worn discs, almost completely worn pads, the pistons can DROP OUT from calipers. I made some measurements and I observed that the pistons drop out when the range between caliper outer arm (the place where outer pad seats) and piston reaches 35 mm. So imagine this situation : 21 mm worn discs, pads: 6,5 mm of metal + 1 mm of material lasting every of them. It gives 21 mm + 7,5 mm + 7,5 mm = 36 mm. It is ONLY 1 mm left............... (36 mm - 35 mm).
Some people put when the pads are partially worn a metal part from used pad. But this requires observation of pads all the time. I wanted something simple, to function as stock brackes. My idea was finally to make the pistons longer. I went to machine shop and I asked to fabricate me a special kind of inserts. On one side they have diameter of hole into the piston, on other side they have diameter of the piston. The length of the bigger diameter part (=piston diameter) is just 5 mm. The smaller diameter part is about 8 mm long. The The inserts are pressed into pistons, making them 5 mm longer, finally the pistons are exactly in the same position within calipers as with 28 mm original discs.
Lower bracket moving element on each side (you fix the calipers to it) seem to be about 1,5 - 2 mm too long (but I am not sure 100% about that). That could explain a phenomene that someone described here some time ago about cutting the pads in "V" - with new pads and discs the caliper is not exactly in parallel position to the disc surface. I have for the moment cut 1,5 mm of the lower element, that lets to enter 1,5 mm more into bracket.
Mount the calipers left on left side, right on right. The prelude brake lines are long enough, but you mount them not in original legend position, but just in prelude position (it means the line goes up from the caliper). There are 2 metal hatches designed to keep brake line end in good position when fixing the bolt. Finally the legend hatches will not be used - they are in wrong place - the brake line would go wrong and is not long enough. Use some kind of loctite when fixing the bolt. As the hatches are not used, the brake line end must be kept in good position manually when fixing the bolt.
One inconvenience of left on left, right on right setup: to bleed the system the calipers must be demounted, and some spacer must be put into caliper (to have the bleeding screw upside).
I have spent a lot of time reading the threads about it. Some people install them "as they are" - legend brackets and calipers, some others use prelude brackets and legend calipers, etc...
The most important problem I realized is that legend discs are 28 mm instead of 23 mm prelude discs. The 4gen prelude disc is 4 bolt and legend is 5 bolt one - legend discs cannot be used. I haven't found any trace of 4gen prelude 28 mm usable discs on the market (maybe if you make some kind a custom set, but it would cost a fortune I think...).
If you use legend brackets on prelude discs it generates a serious danger, worn pads can become thin enough to drop between disc and bracket, which would probably cause wheel blocking. Imagine what would happen if you drive 100 mph for exemple and one of your front wheels becomes blocked.......... So DO NOT USE 28 mm LEGEND BRACKETS!!!! USE PRELUDE VTEC 23 mm ONES!!!
The legend calipers are designed for a 28 mm disc too. If you put them on prelude 23 mm discs, into initial position (new discs and pads), the pistons are already 5 mm out (=as 5 mm worn pads on legend). The problem is when you would have worn discs, almost completely worn pads, the pistons can DROP OUT from calipers. I made some measurements and I observed that the pistons drop out when the range between caliper outer arm (the place where outer pad seats) and piston reaches 35 mm. So imagine this situation : 21 mm worn discs, pads: 6,5 mm of metal + 1 mm of material lasting every of them. It gives 21 mm + 7,5 mm + 7,5 mm = 36 mm. It is ONLY 1 mm left............... (36 mm - 35 mm).
Some people put when the pads are partially worn a metal part from used pad. But this requires observation of pads all the time. I wanted something simple, to function as stock brackes. My idea was finally to make the pistons longer. I went to machine shop and I asked to fabricate me a special kind of inserts. On one side they have diameter of hole into the piston, on other side they have diameter of the piston. The length of the bigger diameter part (=piston diameter) is just 5 mm. The smaller diameter part is about 8 mm long. The The inserts are pressed into pistons, making them 5 mm longer, finally the pistons are exactly in the same position within calipers as with 28 mm original discs.
Lower bracket moving element on each side (you fix the calipers to it) seem to be about 1,5 - 2 mm too long (but I am not sure 100% about that). That could explain a phenomene that someone described here some time ago about cutting the pads in "V" - with new pads and discs the caliper is not exactly in parallel position to the disc surface. I have for the moment cut 1,5 mm of the lower element, that lets to enter 1,5 mm more into bracket.
Mount the calipers left on left side, right on right. The prelude brake lines are long enough, but you mount them not in original legend position, but just in prelude position (it means the line goes up from the caliper). There are 2 metal hatches designed to keep brake line end in good position when fixing the bolt. Finally the legend hatches will not be used - they are in wrong place - the brake line would go wrong and is not long enough. Use some kind of loctite when fixing the bolt. As the hatches are not used, the brake line end must be kept in good position manually when fixing the bolt.
One inconvenience of left on left, right on right setup: to bleed the system the calipers must be demounted, and some spacer must be put into caliper (to have the bleeding screw upside).
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freeburn
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
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Dec 6, 2008 08:28 AM




