Todays million dollar question:

Do I really need a passenger seat or should I sell it to buy other important items?

Here is my situation.

- 5 track days
- I will be attending Skip Barber Racing School in two weeks
- Plan to be racing by the end of the season

If I go do track days I would be classified in advanced most likely as I am in intermediate 2 as we speak. At that point it is unneccessary to have an instructor with you.

If I go to a new track I am sure I can pick up the line rather quickly.

I can get $400 for my Sparco Pro 2000 and I would like to use the money on a fire suit.

Any opinions?



Modified by VTECAcuraGSR at 10:57 AM 7/31/2004

 

Sure, sell it off......gonna kinda suck when the girlfriend wants to go somewhere.

 

This is only in the race car... Its not daily driven!

 

5 whole track days? I say keep it and ask experienced drivers to ride with you and give you tips whenever you get the opportunity.

 

In all seriousness when do most remove their passenger seat?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In all seriousness when do most remove their passenger seat?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably at the point where they no longer need a passenger.

I'd say leave it in, so you can still get valuable instruction at track days. If $400 is going to make or break your budget, you might be in the wrong sport.

 

I'd say take it out if you think you're ready...but if you are unsure its only 4 bolts holding the seat into the car...so you could always leave it in, and take it out at the track if you do find that you don't want or need a passenger/instructor/experienced driver for your first (or any) run of the day.

 

If your goal is to go racing, I would not have passengers in the car any more. At this point, if you want instructional help, use lead follows and/or tape review. There is no reason to continue to reinforce the habbit of relying on someone in the car with you if your next step is wheel to wheel where you will not have that. From my perspective, its good to start practicing only in the way you will be seeing the track when you do go w2w (so not a bad idea to be fully in that mode, window net up, full riot gear on, etc ...). JMO

 

It really doesn't matter what you think. It matters what your instructor/sanctioning body thinks. Just because you "think" you won't be in HPDE2 anymore doesn't mean you won't be. Especially if you go to a track you've never been before. They might want to stick an instructor in there for a session or two.

To answer your question about when most people take their passenger seat out, I would presumably guess when they get their comp license in the mail.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your goal is to go racing, I would not have passengers in the car any more. At this point, if you want instructional help, use lead follows and/or tape review. There is no reason to continue to reinforce the habbit of relying on someone in the car with you if your next step is wheel to wheel where you will not have that. From my perspective, its good to start practicing only in the way you will be seeing the track when you do go w2w (so not a bad idea to be fully in that mode, window net up, full riot gear on, etc ...). JMO </TD></TR></TABLE>

Splat this was my thinking precisly!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It really doesn't matter what you think. It matters what your instructor/sanctioning body thinks. Just because you "think" you won't be in HPDE2 anymore doesn't mean you won't be. Especially if you go to a track you've never been before. They might want to stick an instructor in there for a session or two.

To answer your question about when most people take their passenger seat out, I would presumably guess when they get their comp license in the mail.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mr. Milano as I said above I will be attending Skip barber in two weeks and once I am done with the class I will be given a provisional SCCA regional license. This is pretty close to in the mail!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Mr. Milano as I said above I will be attending Skip barber in two weeks and once I am done with the class I will be given a provisional SCCA regional license. This is pretty close to in the mail! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Milano's explanation is how I understand it to be when driving with NASA, I have no idea about SCCA but would expect it to be similar if not the same.

As well, from what I understand further about Barber schools is that you have the ability to apply for a provisional racing license when you graduate from one of their schools/classes that allows such but Not that you automatically get a Competition license simply because you attended their school and fulfilled seat and or classroom time.

Maybe I'm all wrong but me personally I'd never rush something as serious and important as moving up run groups prematurely or refusing instruction (removing passenger seat) or assuming that I'm ready before an instructor decides this for me. I'd much rather have an instructor make me pit in after a few laps on a new course or even somewhere I've already driver or even been signed off at and tell me I'm good to go and or may even need to move up a group.


I say leave the seat in till you actually are prepping for your first race.


The check is in the mail, or even the check is as good as in the mail don't fly for me at least.

Maybe I or we misunderstood, but it sounds like you're trying to rush things a bit is all.


Best of luck at school.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Splat this was my thinking precisly!

Mr. Milano as I said above I will be attending Skip barber in two weeks and once I am done with the class I will be given a provisional SCCA regional license. This is pretty close to in the mail! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I fail to see that part in your posting. Well when you have a comp license in your hand then I supposed that would qualify you to do so. Just because you attend skip barber doesn't "automatically" mean you get one. When you attend their "Race" school. Your are "eligible" to apply for one. Once you receive. I'd say you're golden.


edit: Checked Barber's website to verify.


Modified by Mr Milano at 11:10 AM 7/31/2004

 

Teg and Milano, checks and mail aside, on what experience are you basing this recomendation for keeping a passenger seat in the car? I am curious as I have instructed with NASA both in-car and lead-follow (the latter I find much more effective for someone that wants to go racing). Based on my limited experience, and all folks are different, having people in the car is both a crutch and a bad thiing to get accustomed to if you are trying to get yourself ready to go racing wheel to wheel. There will be tracks you will run on w/out any previous seat time in racing, it is important to be able to pick them up w/out someone in the car. And B. there are no guarantees that what someone in the passenger seat is showing you is the right line, they are simply showing you the safest line for themselves (and I think they are right as rain in doing so).

Just my experience.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Teg and Milano, checks and mail aside, on what experience are you basing this recomendation for keeping a passenger seat in the car? I am curious as I have instructed with NASA both in-car and lead-follow (the latter I find much more effective for someone that wants to go racing). Based on my limited experience, and all folks are different, having people in the car is both a crutch and a bad thiing to get accustomed to if you are trying to get yourself ready to go racing wheel to wheel. There will be tracks you will run on w/out any previous seat time in racing, it is important to be able to pick them up w/out someone in the car. And B. there are no guarantees that what someone in the passenger seat is showing you is the right line, they are simply showing you the safest line for themselves (and I think they are right as rain in doing so).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn You are right on!

Here are my experiences. I have run with the BMWCCA and SCDA. Both are very good school, but have a tad different philospphy. In intermediate you do not need an instructor and I have been running this for 3 sessions now. Once you know the line and racing/physics fundamentals. One should be able to go to any track and pick up the line rather quickly by a) looking at a map and b) following the fast guys/gals around the track. I have had many so-so instructors and I am not sure that what they have taught me has done any good. I have had great instrutors before, but they only teach basics, which if you read a lot of books including Going Faster inner spped secrets, etc one can learn w/o an instuctor IMO. I undersatnd about safety, etc and at this point I feel as though if I plan on racing later this year, I should break nay habits now! JMO.

Any thoughts?
Just my experience.

 

phat-S, I only mentioned what I said because it just seemed that he might be in a rush to remove the seat prematurely. I have absolutely no racing experience, I only speak from the limited amount of DE's I've attended and from what I understood to be "how things were generally done".

By no means am I a professional with vast experience I may have just been under the wrong assumption as explained to me by others.

The only thing I keyed into with his response was the assumption on his part about his acquiring a comp license after only completing the Barber school since I have investigated this in the past and ultimatly it is my goal to do the same one day.

I fully support his effort. I just tend to take everything one step at a time.

Maybe I was just misinformed. I will inquire more about lead-follow instruction the next time out. In the past I have only experienced incar instruction and been signed off to run solo. The last time I was almost part of a lead follow setting, it was changed at the last minute to incar instruction.

I can understand what you mean by a crutch and also how yo may learn differently in the lead-follow situation. I also look forward to learn and progress enough to some day instruct myself, as well as achieve a comp license.

 

Race licensing schools don't use ride-alongs. If your goal is a license for head-to-head competition, don't spend the dough on a proper race seat for the passenger side.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Race licensing schools don't use ride-alongs. If your goal is a license for head-to-head competition, don't spend the dough on a proper race seat for the passenger side.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>


Right. What I was merely saying is he made is sound originally as if we was going through the ranks NASA style. Where instructor ride along is generally the case. It sounds like he already spent the money for a passenger race seat and wants to sell it. I would of just kept it stock (even though NASA frowns upon this and wants "equal protection for the instructor" which is fine). I would have just kept the driver side stock as well. As harnesses will probably be 90% of the work anyways.

I guess it all boils down to what method and sanctioning body you use.