What would you do? I have a 98 CRV motor, stock top and bottom end. Should I drop in some Crower springs, retainers, and 404 cams; or should I change over to a stock B16 head? Figure both will be in the 600 to 700 dollar range.

I'll get a VAFC or SAFC, respectively.

Decisions, decisions...

 

Either way I would definately consider upgrading your bottom end as well.Youd hate to spend all that money on the crower valvetrain or b16 head swap and blow the motor bc you left the inferior stock b20 bottom end.

 

404's

 

I don't plan on doing anything to the bottom end, and I don't plan on running past the stock redline.

 

definately the 404's man!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Acura_I-RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't plan on doing anything to the bottom end, and I don't plan on running past the stock redline</TD></TR></TABLE>

Definately get the cams then, they will do you well. You may not even need the springs/retainers if you are keeping the stock redline..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greenery18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Definately get the cams then, they will do you well. You may not even need the springs/retainers if you are keeping the stock redline..</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah dude get the cams. It runs ok with the Low CR bottom. hell u make Close if not more (tunned well) then a vtec swap at your STOCK redline with 404's go figure Also def. need the spring Kit because with such high lift you will get spring Bind where the springs cant compress anymore and become well.. solid Hope that helps.

 

Wiseco - CRV B20 Vtec Hybrid Piston & Ring Set
8.8:1(isn't that stock b20b) or 11.75:1

$369 - worth it while you're ripping the motor apart anyway. Are the b20 rods as strong as the ls?

I'll see you in the desert.

-Junior-

PS - I voted B16, but maybe the 404's would be better if you're leaving the shortblock alone.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN1OR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wiseco - CRV B20 Vtec Hybrid Piston & Ring Set
8.8:1(isn't that stock b20b) or 11.75:1

$369 - worth it while you're ripping the motor apart anyway. Are the b20 rods as strong as the ls?

I'll see you in the desert.

-Junior-

PS - I voted B16, but maybe the 404's would be better if you're leaving the shortblock alone.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It might be $369.00 for just the pistons, but the total cost of building the bottom end would land me in the &gt;$1000.00 range. Add that to the 600-700 bucks for the cams, springs, and retainers, and I might as well go FI.

Pistons, head gasket, oil pan gasket, new bearings (might as well), shot peened rods, machine work (head and block deck, plus cylinder hone), all new fluids, freeze plugs, ARP studs (might as well), ETC.

Not to mention the fact that I might as well pull the motor to do all that. And I don't have another car to use.

Yea, it's real easy to say "Hey you might as well do pistons too" if you don't put any thought into it.

Good one Junior.

 

those pistons wont work on stock rods anyway.....the rods would have to be modified to accept the floating wrist pins.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greenery18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Definately get the cams then, they will do you well. You may not even need the springs/retainers if you are keeping the stock redline..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock springs will bind. Those cams are very high lift.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN1OR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stock springs will bind. Those cams are very high lift.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wreckedmyteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Should I drop in some Crower springs, retainers, and 404 cams; </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Wow, this post rose from the ashes...

 

I say go with the cams! Tune them with Uberdata instead of the SAFC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Octoman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say go with the cams!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i say go with the head. vtec is tite. u wont regret

 

if you run the 404's on the stock 9.2 CR you will be extremely dissapointed, i did, and I was, if you aren't raising the CR the 403's will outperform the severely overcammed 404's,

and on stock CR expect anything below 3500rpms to be crap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you run the 404's on the stock 9.2 CR you will be extremely dissapointed, i did, and I was, if you aren't raising the CR the 403's will outperform the severely overcammed 404's,

and on stock CR expect anything below 3500rpms to be crap</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have not experienced this to be true.

I bumped up my compression by a measly .2 from milling the head, and saw much more gains than a simmilar setup 403 B18B a friend had. Power under 3,500rpm with the 404s was excellent.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Power under 3,500rpm with the 404s was excellent.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would you say as good, worse, or better than stock?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you run the 404's on the stock 9.2 CR you will be extremely dissapointed, i did, and I was, if you aren't raising the CR the 403's will outperform the severely overcammed 404's,

and on stock CR expect anything below 3500rpms to be crap</TD></TR></TABLE>


um, not true. My friend has a 2 door civic coupe with a '98 b18b, with Crower 404's/valvtrain and it idles fine. It stumbles a bit before 2500 but thats b/c his chipped ECU dumps to much fuel on the bottom end, but as soon and it gets over that 1st stumble....skkkkkkkkkrrrrrrrrrrttt.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wreckedmyteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Would you say as good, worse, or better than stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>

better

 

i would go wit the 404s

 

well i have expereience this to be tru, i lost torque everywhere below 5500rpms(compared to bolt-ons),

perhaps obd1 systems respond better than obd0 systems, but until I seee another person pullin styleTeg's numbers with stock CR I consider that a freak engine, even crower's test engine on their website only managed mid-150's with 404's, if it were that easy to pop some 404's in and gain 35whp crower would have done it, and notice their dyno doesn't even begin until 2500rpm, wonder why?

those lobes are WAY too big for 9.2 CR and you'll lose power, it's up to you, but look at the stock honda engine anything with even close to the duration and lift of 404's(gsr,ctr,itr) is is running AT LEAST 10:0 CR and usually higher,

if someone told me the power under 3500 waas better than stock I'd laugh in their face, and this has been tuned, i do not drive under 2000rpms anymore because it is just terrible, seriously get the high compression pistons and you will see the power,

 

Crowers dyno is just one of someone who did a before and after on their car, and sent the results to crower. Who knows how strong/weak the motor was, how well it was tuned (if at all) etc.

My motor at the time was not a freak engine. I dynoed with the exact same setup (minus cams) except with a CAI a few months before and only hit 124whp, which is kinda low to be honest.

Things to keep in mind, I did increase the compression by .2 - .3 - Not a lot, I know. But it did keep me at the same dynamic compression as stock, so it wasn't as if I was running less compression because of the lobes.

Look at the 403's, they are pretty much the same lobe as the GSR's yet plenty of people drop them in and see 145 - 150whp with out increasing compression. So the idea that because honda puts 10:1 in the GSR, would mean with out 10:1 the 403's will lose power...... isn't logical.

And what dyno does begin before, 2,500 rpm? I don't think I have ever seen a dyno start that low.

Further, not all tuners are created equal, I am lucky to have a tuner in the area who has tuned for toda on several occasions.

Don't sour the idea of putting in 404s with out a full build because you yourself had a bad experiance. There are plenty of people that do get good results with out new slugs.