A couple of questions. First, is it certain that when a 1994 Honda Prelude has the timing belt break, that there will be engine damage?
Second, should a mechanic charge a customer ($419 in this case) to put on the timing belt in order to see if there is engine damage?

 

Usually when a belt breaks, a few valves may hit a piston causting them to bend. The mechanic fee sounds about right but be aware that more damage could be there. The best thing to do in this case is to remove the actual head and inspect the valves for damage. That way you do not have to pay $419 to have a new belt installed then possibly have to pay to have your whole entire head removed, re-installed, and reinstall the timing belt again.

Did the belt actually tear to pieces, come apart, or skip a few teeth?

 

chances are there is damage to your valves,

like Anthony said, you shouldn't spend the money

for them to install it when they're just gonna have to do it again

so pull the head off and take a look before you go any further.

 

My point is that the mechanic decided to 'replace' the timing belt to determine if the engine was working, and wants to charge $419, after putting on the new timing belt and finding out that the engine won't run. The belt was snapped. He then checked the engine and saw the damage. Shouldn't he have been able to see the damage when taking apart the timing belt compartment by removing the valve cover??

I believe this charge is separate from replacing the engine; and the owner will owe it whether this mechanic replaces the engine or not. He did not tell her of the charge to 'replacing' the timing belt.

 

Hes not going to replace the engine, if anything it would be a few valves, in extreme cases new pistons or have the domes re-worked.

oh and BTW, timing belts are a major PITA in terms of working in a stock engine bay. Im not sure on pricing, but eaither way the work is finished, and it will need to be payed.

 

Basically he wants to replace the timing belt and see if the motor runs. You cannot tell without lifting your head off if you have bent valves unless the motor can actually turn over and crank.

Basically he is going to do this:
1) replace timing belt
2) start the car
3) do a compression test
4) if compression is fine, the belt is all that needs to be changed
5) if there is no compression, you must remove the head and replace all bent valves.

He is trying to do the cheapest thing first... but it could be money wasted if the valves are toasted. You could always try a cyl leakdown test but it's going to be hard to have everything lined up properly since there is no timing belt in place.

 

So the owner doesn't need to look at buying a new engine, unless there are too many damaged valves to make it worthwhile? We've had another mechanic say that lifting the valve cover should have been enough to see that there was damage.

Also, if the owner goes with the mechanic who replaced the belt, the charge will be built into the $2800 to replace the engine.


Modified by Paula at 12:47 PM 7/28/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My point is that the mechanic decided to 'replace' the timing belt to determine if the engine was working, and wants to charge $419, after putting on the new timing belt and finding out that the engine won't run. The belt was snapped. He then checked the engine and saw the damage. Shouldn't he have been able to see the damage when taking apart the timing belt compartment by removing the valve cover??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

90% of the mechanics i talk to know that the h22s are "interference engines" meaning that if your timiung belt breaks the valves and pistons are going to "interfer" with each other, he should have know this...

but there is trully no way to tell if any valves are bent until you put a new belt on and do a compression check. thats how i would have done it,

1. replace old timing belt
2. before even trying to start it, do a compression check,
3. based on the numbers decide if internal damage is done.

 

You don't have to pay 419 for a timing belt or even have it on to tell if you have bent valves. You need compression tester, air compressor and a screwdriver. All you have to do is:
0.Remove Valve cover.
1.Pull the number one spark plug
2.Insert screwdriver in cylinder (be careful not to scratch!)
3.Turn crank until piston is in the center of its upward or downward travel.Remove.
4.Position cams with a wrench so that the actuation part of the cam lobes (the large part) are not touching the rocker arms in th NUMBER One cylinder.
5.Disconnect gauge from compression test device and connect the compression test hose to air compressor hose.
6.Install hose into cylinder.

If you hear an abundance of air escaping, then check whether its is escaping from the intake or exhaust.
Intake:Intake valves bent
Exhaust: Exhaust valves bent

If the cylinder is ok then you should hear a small hissing which is the air escaping past the rings, which is fine. Remember if cylinder ones valves are bent then so are number fours because they run on the same stroke. Same for 2 and 3. Repeat the steps above for the other cylinders.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So the owner doesn't need to look at buying a new engine, unless there are too many damaged valves to make it worthwhile? We've had another mechanic say that lifting the valve cover should have been enough to see that there was damage.
Also, if the owner goes with the mechanic who replaced the belt, the charge will be built into the $2800 to replace the engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

YOU DO NOT NEED TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE ENGINE FROM A BROKEN TIMING BELT.

Valves are alot cheaper than an entire engine, even if all of them are shot.

Worst case senerio, piston got damaged. Replace pistons or have them re-worked. Most likely a few valves were bent, you wont know until eaither

A. You pull the head.
B. Do a compression test

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zekueterna &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You don't have to pay 419 for a timing belt or even have it on to tell if you have bent valves. You need compression tester, air compressor and a screwdriver. All you have to do is:
0.Remove Valve cover.
1.Pull the number one spark plug
2.Insert screwdriver in cylinder (be careful not to scratch!)
3.Turn crank until piston is in the center of its upward or downward travel.Remove.
4.Position cams with a wrench so that the actuation part of the cam lobes (the large part) are not touching the rocker arms in th NUMBER One cylinder.
5.Disconnect gauge from compression test device and connect the compression test hose to air compressor hose.
6.Install hose into cylinder.

If you hear an abundance of air escaping, then check whether its is escaping from the intake or exhaust.
Intake:Intake valves bent
Exhaust: Exhaust valves bent

If the cylinder is ok then you should hear a small hissing which is the air escaping past the rings, which is fine. Remember if cylinder ones valves are bent then so are number fours because they run on the same stroke. Same for 2 and 3. Repeat the steps above for the other cylinders. </TD></TR></TABLE>

do this, you'll know if your engine is messed up or not for sure, too bad you dont live in my area, Id change your timing belt for a hell of alot cheaper than that

 

Thank you, one and all, for the information.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

90% of the mechanics i talk to know that the h22s are "interference engines" meaning that if your timiung belt breaks the valves and pistons are going to "interfer" with each other, he should have know this...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, I remember reading on PO.com that someone did the math while claying their motor and found that the H22 SHOULD be a non-interference motor when not in VTEC. BUT, once things get hot and start stretching out in the motor, especially at higher RPM's, things are going to collide..........