Alright, this started as yesterday's project, and now it's really starting to **** me off. I am new to cars, my LS is my first car, and this was my first valve adjustment. I had my dad help me, but it took him about 3 months just to find the time to do this project. I was really thinking it would work out, but then some things went to ****. Here's what happened:

We adjust the valves on the number 1 cylinder, no problem, I learn how to do it. It's actually not that hard with two people because one can hold the adjustment screw while the other tightens the nut.

We weren't thinking and adjusted the number 2 cylinder next, just going in order, which was no big deal. We figured it out when we got to number 3 because it was on the exhaust stroke. That's when it hit me... firing order. Still not a big problem, just a little more adjusting.

Well when we finally got to the number 2 cylinder, **** got crazy. The nut over the adjustment screw is really really tight, so we had to use a breaker bar throughout the adjustment. This time, the piece (i don't know what its called) that the nut and adjustment screw is on popped out. It looks like part of it is a ball and socket type joint, and the other cups the top of the valve. Too bad it doesn't end there.

One of our ideas is to take a screwdriver and compress the valve. Then maybe we can pop the piece back in. In this process, one of the two half-circle rings in the center of the valve pops out. This just sucks. Then when trying to fit that back in, the other flies out as well. Now I need a spring compressor and all autozone can offer is one off a GM V8. Wish me luck, 'cuz I have to have this thing running by tomorrow... it's my daily driver.

Sorry so long: Cliffs: Doing a valve adjustment, popped out a piece that wasnt supposed to pop out, popped out more stuff trying to fit it back in, and getting ready to tackle this beast again today.

 

Sorry to hear that bro. Good luck with the rest of the project. **** like this happens and you just gotta deal with it. Thumbs up to the DIY though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RidinStock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This time, the piece (i don't know what its called) that the nut and adjustment screw is on popped out. It looks like part of it is a ball and socket type joint, and the other cups the top of the valve.

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that peice you are talking about is the rocker arm... same **** happened to me when i did my first valve adjustment.. i thought i broke something but i put it back in there and it was good to go.. i dont know how the valve spring on yours came un done but good luck with that.

 

Well the "ball and socket" thing is the rocker arm which is no biggy you can pop it back into place being careful not to scratch the cam. The "half circle rings" are the valve spring keepers which could be an issue. Need to get a 2 way compression tester and pump compressed air into that cylinder so the valve does not fall into the cylinder, then get a spring compressor you might need an adapter because the springs are so close to the head itself once the spring is compressed the keepers just set opposed to each other on each side of the stem be sure that you dont put them in upside down they taper off at the bottom of the keeper so the thinner part faces down. A pick is a good thing to have when installing these takes some practice but you can do it.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your issue. I dropped one of the valve keepers down an oil hole on my GSR when changing the valve springs. The gods of magnetism were with me, because I fished it from the oil pan.

I'm not flaming, but I would highly recommend the purchase of a factory service manual. It outlines the valve adjustment procedure well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dogginator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would highly recommend the purchase of a factory service manual. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny thing about it is I have a helms. I have been reading on it for a while since I was waiting for my dad's help, its just become that much more frustrating. Oh well, I'm just hoping to get my baby back together.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J337_UNIT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that peice you are talking about is the rocker arm...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes me feel better 'cuz I thought that was what it was called. Hopefully we can get it back into place.

Thanks for the help, its good to hear I'm not the first one to go through it. Good news is I don't think the valve adjustment is that hard at all, I just had bad luck on the first time. It's definitely gonna stay a DIY project for next time. I have one more question though, are the nuts that hold the adjustment screw on the rocker arm supposed to be torqued to hell? They were really hard to get off...

 

lol..sounds like my first valve adjustment. the damn shops you take it too put the vulcan death grip air compressor squeeze on everything they tighten back down apparantly. the regular working man has to become lou ferrigno's alter ego just to break it loose. let us know how your coming along. good luck.

 

GOOD NEWS. Finally got my car running again.

After about 3 hours of additional work, we got the two little pieces back in the top of the spring, and got the rocker arm back over the valve. Then with some more tinkering we found out that my firing order is 1-2-4-3 instead of the manual's 1-3-4-2. This threw me off, but the distributor didn't lie, and you could see the cam coming off the intake stroke when it should have been opposite. Whatever, I figured it out.

When tightening all of the bolts, we accidentally knocked out another rocker arm, but it was easy to get back in just by pushing down the valve and popping it into place. After tightening it all down and starting it up, I had a big for accomplishment. Then I proceeded to go inside and watch Steven Segaul in "Belly of the Beast". Damn that guy can fight. Alright, well thats all, and my advice is do your own valve adjustment just be careful when tightening/loosening the adjustment nut. Thanks for everything everyone, the support actually helped me out.

 

The firing order is 1-3-4-2. You were just doing it backwards. #1 is the one on the timing belt side. And you are supposed to turn the engine counterclockwise. I'm not saying you did it wrong I am just throwing in some info for ya.
I'm glad you finished it up and you know for future reference. And Steven Segal has seriously gone downhill. He's all fat and slow now. Where are all our action hereos? I know Schwarzenegger has the biggest acting job of his career but what kind of world is it when fricken Keanu Reeves and Matt Damon are action stars?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sack Master &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The firing order is 1-3-4-2. You were just doing it backwards. #1 is the one on the timing belt side. And you are supposed to turn the engine counterclockwise. I'm not saying you did it wrong I am just throwing in some info for ya.
I'm glad you finished it up and you know for future reference. And Steven Segal has seriously gone downhill. He's all fat and slow now. Where are all our action hereos? I know Schwarzenegger has the biggest acting job of his career but what kind of world is it when fricken Keanu Reeves and Matt Damon are action stars?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point. I was supposed to crank the engine counter-clockwise? **** that makes a lot more sense. Is that bad if you turn it the wrong way? I don't know. Although Segal has gone downhill, his style represents one I used to study so it's badass to see it in action. You could be surprised what old and fat people can do, I learned that looks can be deceiving.

 

im glad you got everything together... it made me laugh reading this at first because i can see this happening to me when i do my ****.. everything going wrong lol

 

everything going wrong... how else would it be?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RidinStock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good point. I was supposed to crank the engine counter-clockwise? **** that makes a lot more sense. Is that bad if you turn it the wrong way? I don't know. Although Segal has gone downhill, his style represents one I used to study so it's badass to see it in action. You could be surprised what old and fat people can do, I learned that looks can be deceiving.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude are you sure you were reading that Helm's manual? Turning the engine backwards is NOT good, for one thing the timing belt can jump teeth, among other things. I hope you haven't tried to start it yet.

When doing the valve adjustment, each cylinder needs to be near TDC on the compression stroke, so you start w/ #1 by the timing belt, go to #3, then #4 by the distributor, then finally #2. This is the order, if the plug wires/distributor indicates otherwise, then your plug wires are crossed and the engine probably won't run at all.

The adjustment locknuts should be tightened to around 10 ft-lbs I think. It's better to use an in-lbs torque wrench and set it to 120 in-lbs, or whatever the Helm's lists, and multiply by 12.

Before you start that car, set the crank to TDC #1 and double and triple check that the cams line up to make sure the timing belt hasn't jumped a tooth or anything. Also check the tension on the belt to make sure it's still in check.

 

you sounds like you did it all wrong, i've done this like half a dozen times and never had a signle problem, how are you popping off rocker arms everywhere?

like patrick said you have to turn the crank to TDC for each cylinder, it sounds like you were adjusting locknuts on the wrong cylinders, a real quick way to see which cylinder is at TDC is to just wiggle the lock nuts, of all 4 lock nuts are loose then that's the one at TDC.

they should be torqued to 18-ft-lbs,

if you have a helms liek you say,you need to sit down and read it better. how do you not know the torque settings for the lock nuts? and how do you not know which side is piston #1? the helms manual is not wrong,

the helms says crank counterclockwise, so sounds like you were going backwards

 

Well, I guess I got lucky on this one. I don't have a helms, I have a haynes manual but I mixed the two up. My dad's been working on cars for a long time, so I half read the manual and half listened to him. This is where we just ran into stupid problems because he's only worked on domestics and I had no clue what I was doing. It was funny though because for some reason it all still got adjusted. Here's a breakdown of what happened:

We started out by turning the crank clockwise (that was my fault) and putting cylinder 1 at TDC. Adjusted it no problem. Then we weren't thinking, turned the crank to the next TDC (which was #2) and adjusted #2 just going in order. Then when I turned it again, my dad went to do #3 and was like WTF its not on TDC. Then we realized number 4 was. So after a little arguing we adjusted #4, then #3, so it actually came out in order.

Lucky for me the timing belt didn't jump or anything, and the car started up fine. The only reason the distributor indicated otherwise is it was spinning backwards then I cranked the engine backwards. As far as the torque goes, it took a breaker bar to get it off, so we used a breaker bar to torque it back down. I know it's not the best way, but I didn't know it had to be 18-ft-lbs or 120-in-lbs, that was my fault. Oh well, I learned a lot from this one and actually look forward to the next one. Thanks everyone, but lucky for me my car was still running after this.

 

exact same thing happened to me yesterday morning. i was on the last one #2 and i was trying to loosen the nut and the damn thing just popped out of its socket. i thought i broke something but luckly i didn't. it was pretty easy putting it back in though. also, i had to do the valve adjustment twice because i did it wrong the first time.

 

well it's cool that everything worked out,

you need to realize that these cars aren't your dads old domestics, clearences on our cars run into the thousands of an inch, everything should be done to spec, ESPECIALLY anything to do with your valve-train, or bottom end,

just look at a spark-plug gapper for an old domestic, it's like .05, .04, .03, then look at an import gapper .044, .046, .048 our engine's are much much more precise than those old domestics.

if you're ever working on the internals MAKE SURE you torque things to spec, with a torque wrench always, the specs are there for a very good reason, torque wrench is a tiny investment to make sure your engine will last and put out maximum power.

fyi, the locknuts tighten as the engine runs, so when they're put on at 18-ft-lbs they end up much harder to take off than that, since you torqued your with a breaker bar (waaaaaaaaaay over 18lbs) it might be crazy tight next time you try and take em off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">fyi, the locknuts tighten as the engine runs, so when they're put on at 18-ft-lbs they end up much harder to take off than that, since you torqued your with a breaker bar (waaaaaaaaaay over 18lbs) it might be crazy tight next time you try and take em off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn, that sucks. Watch, it's gone be rocker arm after rocker arm next time. Thanks for the info though, I'm happy it all came back together too. I knew that everything was a big deal but the more I hear people talk about it I realize how much of a risk I took. Guess I need to read more.

Hey OT: What's the differences between helms and haynes? I mistakenly said I had the wrong one, but it seems like everyone swears by a helms. It just had me wondering.

 

They're pretty much the same thing.

props to you for doing something yourself... as far as waiting on your dad for like 3 weeks... that sounds like my situation

 

pretty much the same? for starters the haynes is like 200 pages and the helms is like 1200

haynes is the crappy everyman manual, helms is a shop manual endorsed by honda motors co, it has big exploded diagrams of everything, pretty much zero errors, well worth the $60.

http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haynes is the crappy everyman manual, helms is a shop manual endorsed by honda motors co, it has big exploded diagrams of everything, pretty much zero errors, well worth the $60.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's cool, I have heard of them before but never actually seen one. I'll look into getting it 'cuz it sounds a lot better. Thanks for all the info, I'm 17 and still got LOTS to learn...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18Tahtaras &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as far as waiting on your dad for like 3 weeks... that sounds like my situation</TD></TR></TABLE>

It was more like 3 months... but yea, I needed someone's help. I'm glad I didn't tackle it on my own, that would've been a disaster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pretty much the same? for starters the haynes is like 200 pages and the helms is like 1200

haynes is the crappy everyman manual, helms is a shop manual endorsed by honda motors co, it has big exploded diagrams of everything, pretty much zero errors, well worth the $60.

http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh, my bad, i was thinkin of that other one thats like haynes...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2chron4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
haynes is the crappy everyman manual, helms is a shop manual endorsed by honda motors co, it has big exploded diagrams of everything, pretty much zero errors, well worth the $60.

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That "crappy everyman manual" also shows you how to do everything as if you are a crappy everyman mechanic. The Helms assumes you have access to the thousands of dollars worth of tools sitting around in a professional garage. An index would also make life a lot easier. I'll admit for the more hardcore jobs you need a helms, but for regular maintenance (t-belt, coolant change, valve adj., etc) i actually like the crappy everyman manual better.

 

I just paid 375 bucks to have my car worked on by my mechanic.... all I got was:
Valve Adjustment
Timing belt adjustment
fuel filter
oil filter and new oil
car and rotor

Most of the things I can do myself but I just moved and I have absolutely "0" tools to work with so I figured "f-it" I'll just pay to have it done then cause my car was running like ****. When doing the valves with my mechanic we found them to be way f-ing loose which was making this sick nasty knocking noise when you idle and when you accelerate and everything but now with them all adjusted the car has never ran better... good job fixing your problem though...

 

Well, you got lucky compared to me...I just did the same thing, but the rocker arm BROKE off..


Glad you got yours fixed