Ok - i know this is another "one of those posts" that basically just comes down to opinions but I am having a hard time deciding what to do. Please read on, and see if you can help.

Currently have a 95 teg with 105K mi. I got into Autox and Road-racing this year and plan on stepping it up for 2002. I want to compete in Autox for points, and I want to get more serious and learn more about road racing too. I also drive my car daily, and will continue to do so. Bottom line, I want something new so I can stop fixing the little things that keep breaking on my 105K car.

The teg seems fine for autox, (better w/autox tires) but on the track, I got defintely tired of always getting walked on. I love how it handles, I really like driving the car - just need more power. Specially since all the events I've attended didn't allow you to pass in corners.

So here's my delima. I think I want another Teg, (open to RSX/WRX maybe) that has low miles that I can build up again for racing. Nothing too crazy radical, it has to stay daily driven. I've been kinda getting myself all psyched up about getting an R, cause I figured I'd just start with a great race platform and then have less to do in mods. But then I figure, 50 more hp on the track ain't going to make that big of a difference, specially since my current suspension is good (IMO though maybe not as hard as ITR). And I'd be stoked to have an R, but would it really accomplish what I want? Then I thought, maybe I'd just SC it? Reliable, no lag, and I tend to have this jittering idea that turbo is going to be asking for trouble with me not being the mechanically inclined type that I probably should learn to be. And finally it seems that the all-motor masterpieces are more $$$ than SC/turbo anyway. Course, then I thought, save some money, get another LS and screw it - do turbo anyway. Much more power than a stock ITR, and probably overall saving cash.

It's just not clear to me from reading all the FI posts whether these guys have probs with their turbos cause they can't keep their hands off the boost, or because Turbo is just going to have inherent problems. Again, I don't feel I know enough about all this to make the best judgement, I don't claim to, that's why I need help. I'm new to all this. heh!

Basically, I just want to get out and compete. I want to autox competitively, and run it on the track competitively. I'm really getting hooked.

Long post short... what recommendations? 1st of all, sticking with an Integra platform that needs to be daily driven - or secondly, other stuff under 25K like WRX or RSX. I'm leaning towards sticking with a Teg though, so in my mind it comes down to the LS/GSR/R question, and then the SC/Turbo question after that.

thanks for reading my long-*** post - I really appreciate anyones thoughts, specially you guys with Tegs/R's that race!

 

I persoanally (because Im biased!) would look for an R. Right out of the box, they're are the most fun and do real well against others out on the track...and in showroom form..are hard to beat in its class as for Autocrossing goes.

I have had both the GS-R and an R. I ended up modding the GS-R just to get it to feel more sporty... and as for FI..the GSR takes to it better from what I read....so if FI is what you really want..go with a GS-R.

The R on the other hand I have not felt the need for another suspension (upgrade) and I am particularly amazed at that myself..because I like a firm "race" feel, and the R has satisfied that enough...and I am still fast enough (for my driving level) out on the track.

For out of the box thrills...the R... For Potential with FI... GS-R

AND STAY AWAY FROM TURBO!!!! IMO!

 

Funny, when I started, my answer was more power. Now? I don't think I'd want to track a race car with over 250 hp. Means you'll be going that much faster when you crash.

Also if you've got some killer car, that means you'll be expected to go fast. It's the whole "white men can't jump" thing. Shitty cars are expected to go slow. Makes it all the better when you pass "fast" sports cars. If you have one of those fast sports cars, you're expected to go fast. God forbid that you should get passed by a slower car.

If you want the R, get the R, and don't mess around with it, other than maybe suspension. If you plan on auto-x'ing, then don't even mess with the suspension. Stay in d-stock.

If you want to do more track days, make damn sure whatever you have, you have a roll bar at least.

Warren

 

I would get a Type R if your situation allows you to do so (mostly insurance and theft.) If you were gonna modify a GSR and make it comparable to a stock ITR, it is definitely possible, but you would be spending a lot more.
When you're on the track, horsepower isn't everything. Handling, braking and most importantly driver's skill can easily make up the horsepower difference.

If you want to go FI, get something that is FI right out of the factory (MR2, WRX, older Eclipse, etc). It would save you a lot of trouble!

 

You can play with the suspension and still remain in the stock classes.
With some restrictions of course...


[Modified by Flux, 3:10 PM 11/25/2001]

 

S/C being reliable as stock is a myth. It takes a ton of tuning and upkeep to make it work reliably, and you need far more than the basic JR kit to get good power. My type R is fantastic on the track with nothing more than brake pads and fluid and tires. And it will run all day every day reliably, and if it breaks, it is under warranty. (It hasn't) Yeah there are faster cars, but none I can think of in the same price range that combine the speed, handling, brakes, and reliability of the R. As for the WRX, I have one, and it is a nice boulevardier, but the handling and brakes are a joke, even with upgraded brake pads and wheels/tires. The WRX feels like a really fast Camry – no comparison to the R.

 

myth??? hmmm thats odd because I have proven that the kit can work if you do the right setup. Yeah I have done like 100 dynoruns, however that was in testing for my car to see what will work! With the testing I've done we've bee nable to get killer results on other JRSC R's with very little dynotuning.
My testing has made me 255whp with more to come with stock internals and full streetability. Being street legal no, but what car with mods that will make power it legal! Basically the key to JRSC's as with every modification is installing it correctly, having the right setup, and having it tuned right. I mean, how can you say that it take tons of tuning to make it work? All it is tuning the air/fuel ratio and timing. Any good dynoshop can do that. However having the correct setup to make tuning the air/fuel and timing possible is another story. A story which I wrote myself with my time, money, and the help of many friends at DSR. My work and idea's are all on my website. If you need help just E-mail me.

 

First off - thank you ALL for your replies, I really appreciate it!

I'm not one to jump into things lightly, and getting another car is one of those things. After reading the posts here, I'm pretty sure my decision is going to be an R, the timing and the $$$ will be the only issue. I want one with low miles so I can feel like I have all the time in the world to beat down on it, heh. And I'd like a 2000/2001 model, preferrably black.

OT - Anyone had experience with the 2k R's dynoing any differently then the 97/98 ones? I read in the latest Sport Compact Car where the editor had repeatedly dyno'd stock 97/98 R's that only dyno'd 10-11hp more than stock GSRs. Any of you dyno your R's stock or otherwise? They said they repeatedly dyno'd the 170hp GSR at 150-152, and the R at 161 or so. They said "97/98 R" so I just wondered if there's a story behind that.

Anyhow - if I can find a black 200x ITR, that would be ideal for me, but I'll take what I can get for the right price. Might wait until Jan 2002 or something, just to make sure I get the job I *think* is already a done deal. heh!

Chris
I've seen that first-hand - there was an older gentleman at a KC autox i was at recently that had a black ITR, had the mazda wheels on it. He was cool, said he only brought it to the track then put it back in his garage - must be nice.

I would imagine that would be my experience as well... I'm sure not going to run out and try FI'ing it before driving it a while either.


Warren
Good point - I used to tend to be a "I can't die" type of guy behind a wheel or behind handle-bars. I wrecked my ninja ZX6R over the summer and am just now able to sleep on my right shoulder. I came to the realization I wanted a fast car that wasn't all muscle, but more agile. I want to get home in my car after driving it on the track, heh! That's a lot of my reasoning for being in a quick 4-cyl car instead of the typical v8 Cobra/SS's I see spinning off the course at track events. Though I don't want to get completely walked on the straights either, haha.

You see many R's in STS or STR? Seems like a good class, and what I'm in, for cars like mine with modified suspension strut-brace/sway-bar/springs and CAI. (don't think my R exhaust counts) I've only ever seen stock R's running stock class too. But I undertsand they are bumping up a class for next year?

Roll bar as opposed to roll cage? What's the difference?


Wai
My insurance will jump some of course, but nothing can come close to what I was paying a year ago ($375 month) when I had an accident and several speeding tickets So I'm not worried about that - and man I feel sorry for all you guys that live in big cities with R's... where I live I could probably put it on the street in front of my house with the windows rolled down. Well... maybe not quite, but I'm not going to worry everytime I want to go to the movie theater either.

Rboosted717
I looked over your website - looks like you've done all the time and work so everyone else doesn't have to. Good stuff!
Anyone know if Vortech has a SC for the R?

 

skip on the vortech. The charger is way too big for our 4cly 1.8l setups. Yeah they put out killer power, however that killer power it only their from 7k-up. When I was at 220whp, I put my plot up next to a vortech Si that hit 275whp on our dyno. All the way to 7k I was around 15-30+whp above him till 7500k rpms where he just shot up and peaked his power. Also the trq on them is high, but that too is only at the top end. With the Eaton/screw charger setup you have a nice smooth trq line everywhere.

 

Gotchya - that's good to know. I mostly want high torque increase at low (and instant) rpm's for accelerating out of sharp corners. And when you say "when you were at 220whp" does that mean you're at a lot more, the unholy amount I saw on your dyno plot from the Endyn work? How's that going?

Oh yeah, I was going to ask, what did your ITR dyno at stock? Is there anything to this misrepresentation of crank HP of 195 for the stock ITR from Honda, compared to say, the stock GSR's 170? (as SCC would have you believe in their Decmeber article about "filtering the BS") read my post about this too
Thanks again!


[Modified by uncleben, 8:51 AM 11/26/2001]

 

Mike: I didn't intend to disparage your car; in fact, I admire the time and work you have put into it. However, to suggest that what you have done hasn't been extremely time consuming and expensive would be a misrepresentation, would it not?

 

I'm currently at 255whp and 170trq. I'm still in the process of playing around with my setup to see if theirs anymore I can get out of it. That Endyn plot I had on my site was not my car. Thats another car that had a R engine in it. I'm still using stock internals and that car is not. I'm sure ImportReview could speak on behalf of that car. I was going to go that route, but after some light was shead on Endyn by Jeff, I decided to stay away. Also that plot has the car using NOS also, which I don't plan on ever doing.
Oh yeah, as for dynoing stock, I never had to chance to. But most stock R's will hit 160-165whp. And thats whp not hp. Yes the stock R's do have 195hp, but to the wheels they put out in the 160's. All cars do that.


[Modified by Rboosted717, 10:26 AM 11/26/2001]

 

Oh ok, I see what you meant. However yeah that was after tons of work and testing, however I was also the guineea pi on this. I used my car for our own testing. When we did a similiar setup on another R, we put on most all the parts that worked for me and did a few funs in tuning and he hit really good numbers. Now that I got all the testing out of the way, we can make some serious power now at the shop on other JRSC R's.