Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'?
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From: West
Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'?
Recently got my header installed (Sp00m 4-2-1). I've heard this can increase oil temps (over stock USDM) because of the extra exhaust heat. Some HT searches inidcated stick on reflective heat shielding on the bottom of the oil pan, above the header pipe. I can't find any to order, so I was thinking about header wrap.
:edit: I'm mainly concerned about increased oil temps, and the resulting problems this can cause with engine life.
Anyone have any input? The wrap is pretty pricey, but claims to offer performance increases by retaining exhaust heat to increase scavenging. Also claims underhood temp reductions which should improve performance by reducing intake air temps (I won't be running a cold water (
) intake, thank you). It should also keep the plastic and rubber parts near the header from being heat damaged/hardened (no heat shield available).
Modified by Ill at 5:15 PM 7/10/2004
:edit: I'm mainly concerned about increased oil temps, and the resulting problems this can cause with engine life.
Anyone have any input? The wrap is pretty pricey, but claims to offer performance increases by retaining exhaust heat to increase scavenging. Also claims underhood temp reductions which should improve performance by reducing intake air temps (I won't be running a cold water (
) intake, thank you). It should also keep the plastic and rubber parts near the header from being heat damaged/hardened (no heat shield available).Modified by Ill at 5:15 PM 7/10/2004
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Big Phat R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ceramic coating works better, looks better and lasts longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is what I would recommend to you if you plan on keeping the header for a long time.
This is what I would recommend to you if you plan on keeping the header for a long time.
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (B2FiNiTY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B2FiNiTY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The downside is that if water/moisture gets trapped inside, it will cause your header to prematurely rust. </TD></TR></TABLE>
True, and even without the moisture, the heat being trapped inside the metal will cause accelerated damage to the header. As Big Phat R said, your best bet is a prefessional ceramic coating (external and internal). Avoid the less expensive external-only coatings, as they will cause the same trapping of heat as the header wrap.
True, and even without the moisture, the heat being trapped inside the metal will cause accelerated damage to the header. As Big Phat R said, your best bet is a prefessional ceramic coating (external and internal). Avoid the less expensive external-only coatings, as they will cause the same trapping of heat as the header wrap.
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Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Padawan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">True, and even without the moisture, the heat being trapped inside the metal will cause accelerated damage to the header. As Big Phat R said, your best bet is a prefessional ceramic coating (external and internal). Avoid the less expensive external-only coatings, as they will cause the same trapping of heat as the header wrap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
What?
Ceramic coatings are routinely done on the outside surface only. The purpose of this is to reduce radiation of heat from the manifold's surface to reduce underhood temps.
External only does NOT cause any trapping of heat.
Read this:
http://www.performancecoatings.com/
What?
Ceramic coatings are routinely done on the outside surface only. The purpose of this is to reduce radiation of heat from the manifold's surface to reduce underhood temps.
External only does NOT cause any trapping of heat.
Read this:
http://www.performancecoatings.com/
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Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Big Phat R)
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From: West
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (furious94ls)
The ThermoTec is what I was looking at for wrap. Unfortunately, the amount I need is about $60 from the local shops. Ouch!
That Sp00m stick on sounds like the ticket from opak.
Anyone know how much for ceramic? I don't have a local shop that can do that, so I'd have to send the header out. The Spoon is a 2 piece header - any problem with that?
That Sp00m stick on sounds like the ticket from opak.
Anyone know how much for ceramic? I don't have a local shop that can do that, so I'd have to send the header out. The Spoon is a 2 piece header - any problem with that?
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Big Phat R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What?
Ceramic coatings are routinely done on the outside surface only. The purpose of this is to reduce radiation of heat from the manifold's surface to reduce underhood temps.
External only does NOT cause any trapping of heat.
Read this:
http://www.performancecoatings.com/</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just because coatings are often only applied to the outside surfaces doesn't make it the correct or ideal practice. If your only goal is reducing under-hood temperatures, and prolonging the life of the header isn't a concern, then an external-only coating is fine. However, good coaters (e.g. Airborn, Jet-Hot, etc.) will coat both the inside and outside of the header. If this is not done, the coating certainly <u>does</u> form a barrier that can trap heat within the metal itself. The heat from the exhaust gasses travels through the metal to the outer surfaces of the header tubing, and when this heat is trapped by a coating on the surface of the tubing, the life of the header can be reduced. By coating both the inside and the outside of the header, the heat from the gases is prevented from being transferred to the metal in the first place.
In addition to information I've read from one of the above-mentioned coaters, here is some insight from Dave at SMSP regarding this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The coating acts as a barrier to reduce heat transfer, i.e. lost of exhaust gas temperature. If the tubing is only coated on the outside there is more heat transfer though the tubing walls and then it gets "slowed" down at the OD of the tubing. This traps more heat in the tubing walls which isn't good and is one of te reasons why wrapping a header is a bad idea besides moisture retention. The inside should always be coated with the outside or you could accelerate the degradation of the coating on the outside of the tubing if that was the only side coated.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you're going to spend the money to have a header coated (especially an expensive one), you should definitely spend the extra to have it done properly by a high-quality shop on the both internal and external surfaces.
Ceramic coatings are routinely done on the outside surface only. The purpose of this is to reduce radiation of heat from the manifold's surface to reduce underhood temps.
External only does NOT cause any trapping of heat.
Read this:
http://www.performancecoatings.com/</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just because coatings are often only applied to the outside surfaces doesn't make it the correct or ideal practice. If your only goal is reducing under-hood temperatures, and prolonging the life of the header isn't a concern, then an external-only coating is fine. However, good coaters (e.g. Airborn, Jet-Hot, etc.) will coat both the inside and outside of the header. If this is not done, the coating certainly <u>does</u> form a barrier that can trap heat within the metal itself. The heat from the exhaust gasses travels through the metal to the outer surfaces of the header tubing, and when this heat is trapped by a coating on the surface of the tubing, the life of the header can be reduced. By coating both the inside and the outside of the header, the heat from the gases is prevented from being transferred to the metal in the first place.
In addition to information I've read from one of the above-mentioned coaters, here is some insight from Dave at SMSP regarding this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The coating acts as a barrier to reduce heat transfer, i.e. lost of exhaust gas temperature. If the tubing is only coated on the outside there is more heat transfer though the tubing walls and then it gets "slowed" down at the OD of the tubing. This traps more heat in the tubing walls which isn't good and is one of te reasons why wrapping a header is a bad idea besides moisture retention. The inside should always be coated with the outside or you could accelerate the degradation of the coating on the outside of the tubing if that was the only side coated.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you're going to spend the money to have a header coated (especially an expensive one), you should definitely spend the extra to have it done properly by a high-quality shop on the both internal and external surfaces.
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Ill)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ill »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone know how much for ceramic? I don't have a local shop that can do that, so I'd have to send the header out. The Spoon is a 2 piece header - any problem with that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
According to their site, Airborn's current rate is $130 for a 4-cylinder header (in/out), with a lifetime guarantee against rust & corrosion.
According to their site, Airborn's current rate is $130 for a 4-cylinder header (in/out), with a lifetime guarantee against rust & corrosion.
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Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Padawan)
Link to Airborne?
Will a good coater bead blast to remove carbon from the inside prior to coating?
What about the fact that the Spoon is a two piece? I'm not familiar with the coat process - can they mask the studs, mating surfaces, and the O2 bung threads, or does it matter?
Will a good coater bead blast to remove carbon from the inside prior to coating?
What about the fact that the Spoon is a two piece? I'm not familiar with the coat process - can they mask the studs, mating surfaces, and the O2 bung threads, or does it matter?
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Ill)
Airborn Coatings
I know Jet-Hot does a complete prep before coating, and I assume Airborn does the same. Your best bet would be to contact them regarding the two-piece concern, but they shouldn't have any problems properly coating it. As an FYI, last time I checked, Dave at SMSP uses Airborn. They have 3 different locations, so finding one reasonably close to you should be easier. You may also want to contact Jet-Hot, as they send out a very complete information packet that will answer almost any of your questions regarding the coating process.
I know Jet-Hot does a complete prep before coating, and I assume Airborn does the same. Your best bet would be to contact them regarding the two-piece concern, but they shouldn't have any problems properly coating it. As an FYI, last time I checked, Dave at SMSP uses Airborn. They have 3 different locations, so finding one reasonably close to you should be easier. You may also want to contact Jet-Hot, as they send out a very complete information packet that will answer almost any of your questions regarding the coating process.
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Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Big Phat R)
Hurm, i should just coat my dirty Toda... This would solve my lack of caring about bling and reduce underhood temps... sigh, another project.
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Big Phat R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not so easy when you have anti-reversion chambers in your header.....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Jet-Hot thermally degreases the entire header, and after coating the exterior, the interior is flow-coated, so the chambers shouldn't pose a tremendous problem in that respect. Basically almost anywhere the hot exhaust gases would touch could be covered with the flow-coating procedure.
Jet-Hot thermally degreases the entire header, and after coating the exterior, the interior is flow-coated, so the chambers shouldn't pose a tremendous problem in that respect. Basically almost anywhere the hot exhaust gases would touch could be covered with the flow-coating procedure.
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From: Mustafar
Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (knalige)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by knalige »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is this the same as the jdm dc 4-1 cermaics or is it a different type of cermaic that withstands more heat or something??????</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is a much higher-performance and more durable coating than the standard DC Sports ceramic coating.
It is a much higher-performance and more durable coating than the standard DC Sports ceramic coating.
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Re: Header wrap desirable to reduce oil temps, increase 'performance'? (Padawan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It is a much higher-performance and more durable coating than the standard DC Sports ceramic coating.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks
It is a much higher-performance and more durable coating than the standard DC Sports ceramic coating.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks
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From: Phoenix Arizona
What are your current oil temps?
organics are fine up to 230F, synthetics are fine up to 270F (+ in some cases)
Get an oil temp gauge, so you know your actual temps, and you'll then have data to show if the modifications you make actually reduce temps..
organics are fine up to 230F, synthetics are fine up to 270F (+ in some cases)
Get an oil temp gauge, so you know your actual temps, and you'll then have data to show if the modifications you make actually reduce temps..
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Re: (boost psycho)
If you are only worried about oil temps couldn't you start by insulating the oil pan itself with some heat reflecting material? Might be cheaper and less hassle than having the header coated.
That said I've been looking into external oil cooler setups....
That said I've been looking into external oil cooler setups....
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Re: (ActiveAero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ActiveAero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are only worried about oil temps couldn't you start by insulating the oil pan itself with some heat reflecting material? Might be cheaper and less hassle than having the header coated.
That said I've been looking into external oil cooler setups....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was thinking that this would be a good idea. However don't you think that it would also trap heat inside the pan instead of letting it transfer through the pan?
Anyone?
That said I've been looking into external oil cooler setups....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was thinking that this would be a good idea. However don't you think that it would also trap heat inside the pan instead of letting it transfer through the pan?
Anyone?
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Re: (whackassfawker)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by whackassfawker »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was thinking that this would be a good idea. However don't you think that it would also trap heat inside the pan instead of letting it transfer through the pan?
Anyone?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good question.
Oil pan heat shield? That shouldn't be too hard to fab up.
I was thinking that this would be a good idea. However don't you think that it would also trap heat inside the pan instead of letting it transfer through the pan?
Anyone?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good question.
Oil pan heat shield? That shouldn't be too hard to fab up.
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