Okay, a little background and then I'll describe what's going on... I'm dealing with a 1990 Honda Accord EX. 224K miles on it, original owner was my parents. 100% of maintenance has been done by me or the pops. We're **** on the upkeep and other then normal oil sepage the car is actually still in great condition with ONE EXCEPTION...

For about the past year... About once every couple of weeks I'll drive it say 10-15 minutes and then run into a store like 7/11 or a McDonalds or something. Everytime it's happened it's been after the car has run for a short period of time and then turned off for like 5 minutes or less. When I go to start the car it'll start up for a split second just enough to run up to a high idle (1200ish RPM) and then die, then if I try to restart it, it just cranks and cranks. Then if I let it sit for about 3-5 minutes (length of a song on the radio) without the ignition on it'll crank right up and run great again. It's done it warm or cold tempatures... But up until yesterday it's always started after sitting for a couple minutes. This has happened probably 15 times over the past year. Obviously I knew something was failing... Okay, and then yesterday I drive it to work and all is good. Then at lunch nothing... And it doesn't re-start. So I take a friends truck to lunch and at break I go out to play with it. It has spark, the valve train is rotating (timing belt is good), no blown fuses. On the passenger side of the fuel rail above the fuel injectors there's a large plug securing a fuel line. For kicks I broke that loose and cranked it, no fuel leaked out... I would've thought it would've sprayed gas??? So, we grab some gas in a spray (aka starting fluid) and give it some shots up the intake. Vroom, it stutters to life so obviously it's a fuel issue... We get it to run for 5-10 seconds and loose it. Re-try, this time working the throttle butterfly and the starting fluid we're able to get it up to high RPMs and then it drops back down and idles fine. It sits and idles for a minute or so. Then I kill it and it starts right back up... I get home last night no problem. This morning the car starts right up and I make it to work... Then at lunch again it's just cranking and cranking. Once again I take a friends truck to work, this time though I return from lunch and waalaa, it starts right up!!!! So, intermitant fuel pump issue??? Fuel filter??? Replace both??? Way to test them??? I'm assuming the pump is inside the gas tank, is that thing a PITA to drop? Luckily right now it's below 1/4 tank if I have to!!! Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!

Khris

 

At first glance i don't believe it is a fuel issue. It could very well be a electrical issue controling fuel delivery.

first thing, are you setting any codes?

You are going to have to go in there with a voltmeter and check some components.

When it does not start, do this

1. test fuel pump. if the fuel pump is priming (buzzing) forget about it, if it is not priming, probe the yellow wire and ground yourself to the frame. Turn you key on, if you get 12 volts, your good, then possibly the pump, if not bad pump or connections. if you don't get any voltage, that is another problem.. BTW, it's in the tank.

2. test main relay - usually, the main relay will act up is the car is hot. But maybe it can do that if it is on the fritz.

turn the key to the on position, as soon as the cel light is off, you will hear a click. That's the main relay, if not, bad main relay. (replace).

It is entirely possible that you may have a bad connection in the harness supplying the main relay. That is something else that will need to be tested.

fs


Modified by filthy_shovel at 6:05 PM 7/8/2004

 

I'll have to look in the manual tonight to figure out how to pull the codes off it. I'll print this out and check the things mentioned... Thanks for the advice!!! I'd rather definately narrow down the problem before I yank the tank out or something!!!

 

put in a main relay and your problem is solved

 

I second that.

 

If you do hafta replace the fuel pump (no clicking sound and no 12v to ground) you will not need to drop the tank. The fuel pump can be accessed by removing the carpet in the trunk, where you will see two circles siliconed into place. Remove the one on the driver's side to access the pump, just watch the angle when you are pulling it out.

I would definately change the filter, though... if you are sometimes getting fuel spray under pressure on the output side and then not at others, chances are there are a few large particles floating and then settling in there - very common on older cars. Try not to let your tank run down lower than 1/4... it promotes the swirling of junk in the tank when you fill up.

Replace the screen on the fuel pump... this could be another culprit if all elctrical checks out. Good luck to you!!

 

On the '90 Accord where is the main relay???

 

I hate to be the obvious one but it sounds to me like if you just brought your lunch you wouldn't have this problem LOL!

But yeah I second the electrical stuff. I've never heard of a pump being on and off like that. Should be a way to test relays etc.

 

da cheat!

 

you wanna see my golden tooth...tough!!!

 

Guys, do you realize that this is probably the most posted problem in this forum?

As bill-71SS said, just put a main relay in it and your problem will magically disappear.

 

I was told the main relay was the problem solver too but it wasn't. So if it's not the main relay what could it be? Mine starts sometimes and if it does which it usually doesn't if I go to rev the car or put my foot on the gas it cuts out for a second then comes back. When when it gets the slight bit warm it doesn't start at all. When I crank it it sounds like it wants to start but it wont. Not sure if the guy who started this thread has the same problem also??

 

I have a solution to every problem on this forum, and it'll fix obesity. Walk everywhere!

 

Out of curiosity, how did you check your main relay? I had a main relay problem and from your symptoms it sounds like it to me. The main relay cover can be lifted off. There should be some cracking solder joints on the microchip board because of the heat. This is why it's starting intermittently. If you have cracks in your solder joints your probably have a main relay problem. Just gotta resolder those joints and drill some ventilation holes in the main relay. Or buy a new one. Check it out, maybe the main relay is clicking when you tested it, but how do you know it's clicking when your car isn't starting (intermittent problem)?

 

Didn't have a chance to check the car this weekend but will probably play with it tonight. I drove my Ford Exploder today instead...

LOL, I brought my lunch today but I also drove a vehicle that should start at lunch so I guess problem solved??? LOL, what sucks is the Honda is my Mon-Fri ride and is what I rely on for reliability... I mean heck, the honda has never been jumped... Can't say that for the Exploder... LOL, here's the dust it raised this weekend alone!!!

Oh, and I did search on here before posting my problem. I found only one other thread similar. I guess I didn't search for the right terms.

Main relay huh??? Cool, I'll check into that tonight. How pricey is that if I replace it? I guess if it's an obvious bad solder joint I'll go that route before dropping the $$$ though!!!

Thanks for all the recomendations and info guys!!! I appreciate it. I'm used to working on the broken exploder... The honda is RARE to go south!!! Last problem with it was a speed sensor that killed the speedo and made it run rough. That was about 2 months ago, before that I can't remember the last issue with that car other then the normal wearables... Tires, alt, radiator, etc...

 

LOL, WOW, search for main relay and you find all sorts of info on this problem!!!! I guess that's the key search word but that would've never come to mind if you guys hadn't said it. For those of you that post in MULTIPLE threads about searching first... Hmmm, hard to find a fix is you don't know the answer to search for!!!

Okay, now one more question... I could never hear the f/p run to begin with. The damn power antenna is too loud to hear it over. Oh wait, nevermind... LOL, duh, I guess just turn off the stereo or pull that fuse. Okay, stupid question answered, sorry for wasting that time...

I'll check that relay tonight like I said above!!!

 

Could be the Ignition Switch (if you hold the key up between the on and start position and it stays started then its the ignition switch) another common problem is the battery terminal connectors (try shaking them around when that happens)
-Good luck

 

here's the a pic of the main relay solder joint that gives u that no start condition. check out the two solder joints that look two nipples. notice the crack around it.

 

Well, of coarse the damn thing started last night and all checked out fine. I'm almost guessing I'm not going to be able to check it till mid day Friday when it's hot.

I know it's not the ignition issue. I had that EXACT problem on my last honda where I'd have to start it and then quickly throw the key backwards in between accessory and ignition.

LOL, NIPPLES!!!! I do see the crack you're talking about. I'm going to wait till it doesn't start again and get in there with the volt/ohm meter. Then if it tests bad I'll yank it and look for the cracked nipple syndrom.

I appreciate all the help, now it's a matter of getting it not to start!!! LOL, I'm not driving it this week to work cause that's the last place I want to be stuck at!!! Although at least we have tools here!!!

 

Main relay