i have heard a million stories on crower 404s. i am about a day or two from ordering cams for my setup i need to know the honest truth about daily driving 404s i have a 98 ls with ac ps. also i have heard a large lift cam like that can affect your brakes a little due to vacum problems but this could all be bs..... so i need some honest opions from people who have them and also some comments on my setup my goal is going to be honest between 170 anbd 180. Also as of now i have choosen DH for the port work due to the fact that they have the heads already their and i don't have to send one out, but im looking for max power out of this so if you know of a better head porter then please drop the nameof the company or website.

setup
. DH racing? ported head non vtec
. DH racing? tb and ported intake manifold
. 404s with valve springs and retainers
. factory bottom end i have low mileage i can't see taking it apart
. shave the head to try and get as close to 10.1 compression as possible
. apexi afc and a itc controller
. dc 4-1 header hi flowcat or staright pipe threw a spoon n1 exhaust
. 1998 jdm spec itr tranny brand new no miles

thats it please leave comments and an information that may help me out im trying to finsh this project and go off to the dyno thanks !!!!!
.

 

if you have it properly tuned it should not be a problem daily driving with the 404's.

i noticed the more compression you give them the smoother the idle is. if you can get a set of pistons (b16 or ITR) to give you 11:1 or more you will really benefit that cam profile.

 

you should search around before buying stuff from DH...my personal opinon, i'll wouldn't go with DH. bad rep and all. just my 2 cents

 

Sounds good man. 404 are great, a little lumpy when at lights but hey its worth the HP. The set-up looks good. I personally dont know aoubt DH. If you want to get more compression, mill the head .030. Easy thing to get done before the head geos on. Or you can get some P73,P30,PR3. Let me know if you want some I got some P73 A0 USDM for $175 shipped to you.

I'm doing the same thing B18B all motor with P30's and 404's with all the extra.

Looks good, go out and beat up those Vtec's

 

thanks for the help so who should i use for a very good port job. also what would my compression be with the head milled .030.????????????????????

 

Anyone who says 404s idle rough has never been in one, never driven one, or runs way to much overlap via cam gears,

Removing .03 will bump you up to 9.8:1

 

styketeg i have been following most of your nonvtec post and i have been very impressed also was impressed with your dyno numbers basically just with cams could you help me out with my setup. also who would you suggest for a good head porter i know vtec vs non vtec porting isn't much difference any help will be extremelt appreciated thankyou.

 

i would recommend swapping in some higher compression pistons to bump the comp ratio versus milling the head. swap in some pr3 pistons to get a 10.6:1 ratio. those 404's love compression..

 

I wish I could recommend a good head porter for nonvtec heads, but honestly I am looking as well.

I am sure the big name guys could do a good job, but it seems kinda expensive for a head thats worth about $50 unported

As far as your setup, this is what I think

Honestly I wouldn't go with DH racing personally. I hear some weird things, and their dyno claims are outrageous to say the least. On the other hand some people have had good experiances with them, so take it or leave it

For the TB and IM, your best bet is to simply use an ITR TB and Skunk2 IM. Since the 404s are very simmilar to the ITR cam profile, this allows you to run a simmilar sized plenum, runner, and TB which are already matched to the ITR profile specs.

Its going to be VERY hard to get 10.1 with out dropping in new pistons. With milling .03" off (which is about all you can do safely) you are around 9.7:1. You might be able to find some flattop valves to bump you up another few points, but I don't know of anything off hand.

The rest looks good, but consider getting a full 2.5" catback, the spoon is only 60mm

 

would you go with a skunk2 manifold or a stock ported one. also i have heard that crower cams break and i have no idea what cam to use.

 

Are you saying 404 ride smooth? I have been in my friends CRx that ran 13.7 just with these(404), I/E/H in his B18b and it was rough as hell.
My other friend had custom ones done at a local shop here in cali(Clay Smith) and I believe the lift was like 505 or something around there and it stalled big time, but no cam gears to adjust the timing so that could be the problem too? Everytime he would exit the freeway it would gust die on him. This was no big deal to any of use in my crew back in the day. We didn't care about what are cars looked like or what price we had to pay to be fast Get 404 you will love how much they make a difference and how torquey the LS beast can be.

StyleTeg I also have been following your post and it seem you have great knowledge about non-vtech stuff, which i LOVE. I'm building my B18b right now and Wondering what oil pump you recommed with Pr3 pistons. I have read that the only difference is the spring in the GSR pump compared to the LS pump? also i have a itr intake manifold attached to my LS head and want to know what Throttle body to use? Getting P/P on the head and what should i do about valves?? OVersize, standard, flat?????

This is going to be an engine used only on the weekends in a CRX, my second car, so i would like it kinda semi-race, you know what i mean. ANyother info is great.


So sorry for thread Jacking.

 

I have herd of people saying they have a rough idle with the 404s, but in most of those cases it sounds like they are using the stock compression.

If you were to sit in my car with the 404s, you would not know I had different cams. And this is with 4 out of 5 motor mount inserts.

I am also not running much overlap, where I have seen people run ridiculous amounts of overlap on the 404s (which seams counter productive, because the LS heads can't breath that high anyways) to get the "muscle car idle".

If I could chose any oil pump, it would be a bored out and debured ITR pump from Endyn. Unless your motor is from 99+ , as honda started using the same oil pump early 99.

As far as a TB/IM, it really depends on where you want your powerband to be. As stated earlier the 404s are very simmilar profile wise to the ITR cams. However the itr has much different breathing and RPM location do to the stroke/displacement and head design. The B18B really doesn't breath all that high.

Just going with a ITR/S2 IM and TB will be more helpful in the high rpm. If you have a good port job, you might be able to shift your whole powerband up there. However my torque started dropping after 6k. (Stock IM,TB, Head)

If you were to run a TB in between, it would be more helpful in the midrange where the B18B tends to shine. You might want to look into seeing how much the LS can be bored out too. Unfortunetly there are not a whole lot of options in terms of IM's so its pretty much eaither the S2 or a ported LS (which I feel is more or less a lost cause)

Since you are going to be at 10.8:1 with the Pr3 pistons, I wouldn't go to flat topped valves. 1mm over-sized and the head ported by a pro to accommodate it would show some good gains. If you wanted more compression, milling off .012" would bump you past 11:1 and you would only have to advance your cam gears 1 degree to compensate.

 

thanks for all the info since my compression is actually around the same as yours 9.8.1 should i just go with the 403. also i have heard that crower cams have been know to brake in half which i definitly don't want can you sheed any light on this info i have recieved thanks again all this info is like gold for non vtec people!

 

the only crower cams that had issues with breaking were the first releases of their DOHC VTEC cores.

there are little to no issuse with the non-VTEC cams that i know of .....

404's with 11:1+ would be the best setup.

 

Rather than buying new pistons to up the CR, couldnt he just butterfly the pistons?! Doesnt that work as well...

 

what exactly is "butterflying pistons"

 

Well your stock pistons already have grooves cut into them, where your valves are cut...those are called "butterfly cuts" you can get these cut deeper....this would happen, when you mill your head more than .040" run over sized valves, high lift cams, and im sure theres more...anyways...i think this would work well...

 

cool thanks styleteg.

You can bore a ls TB to 64MM, I believe, on the safe side.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleepin91teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rather than buying new pistons to up the CR, couldnt he just butterfly the pistons?! Doesnt that work as well...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cutting the valve reliefs deeper would increase the compression how?

 

so would the 403 or the 404 be better for me. also since it is a daily driven car what cam i expect for mileage out of the cams retainers and springs i know the bottom end will be fine i only have 70 000 onit but some people say that you can't run race cams everyday. If not should i just go with a factory core reground style??????????????



Modified by spoonb18b at 12:02 PM 7/7/2004

 

The 404s are more than fine. I still get 30mpg on mine.

I would stay away from regrinds period

 

i had the 404's in my teg. i liked it. it wasnt bad idle really u can tell it had cams but it wasnt bad the idle was steady just like buh buhhh buh buh. but i liked it. it ran smooth oh and i had 9.8:cr pistons with teh head milled so about 10.4 or so was my cr.

 

so the cams are good for daily driving and longevity of the motor also are the titanium retainers crower uses good for daily driving thanks

 

i used stock retianers not the titanium ones so i couldnt help ya on that

 

ok so the stock on es should hold up im not reving past 7500 which i know has nothing to due with the retainers sinc they are opening the same at 700 or 7000