Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..?

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Old Jun 30, 2004 | 08:21 PM
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Default Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..?

Ello all.

I am going to be replacing my struts f/r very soon. I was considering also replacing the springs.

1st Question: How long do stock springs typically last on a civic? I like to have fun driving, its my everyday car.

I have a few options from what I can tell....

1) Not do anything and just replace the struts..
2) I can just put regular springs on again if they are needed.
3) I can put a permanent drop
4) I can put coilovers on it, which would also require a camber kit

Here are a few more questions....

1) By adding a drop I know it improves handling... how does it affect the smoothness of the ride and the gas mileage?

2) Is getting a permanent drop more or less beneficial than coilovers? or the other way around?

3) How are coilovers? I have heard they can easily strip? Do they wear out fast? How do they handle with someone who enjoys driving?

Where are some good places to buy these things? I dont wanna spend a lot.. but i dont wanna put crap on my car either..

Thanks for the help/advice

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Old Jun 30, 2004 | 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

If you need struts, it would be a nice idea to change the springs. Go with a decent spring, like eibach. Eibach and Tokico combo's are very common, and work great. Another nice option is the tokico handeling kits. They come with springs / struts. Going that route will save you about $100 as well.

Check out:
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.c...honda

We offer a few types of brands, so feel free to take a look.

As for the ride goes, if you get springs / struts, you usually retain good ride, if not more enjoyable. For gas mileage, hard to say, but you will have less drag, so who konws.

Feel free to give us a call to explore other options. Good luck...
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Old Jun 30, 2004 | 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (NoLimitMotorsports)

I got the tokico suspension kit and I like it. It is nice to save that 100$ cause depending on how many miles are on your stock suspension (180k on mine ) you will have to spend it on new LCA bushings (costs about 64$ grrrrr for a stupid piece of metal!). The bushings seize up to the bolt in there, and your best option is to just chop up your old struts to get em off. It's tough if that happens to ya, but if it doesnt you can have em on in 4 hours.... I unfortunately had to wait 4 days (cause autozone stocks for honda like victorias secret stocks mens underware).
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Old Jun 30, 2004 | 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

What's up!

Lowering your car will be a big improvement in handling and a better feel of the road, a 1.65f,1.75r drop would be good enough on stock struts if you don't corner hard coming into a turn otherwise you'll blow your stock struts and need them replaced. If you get some nice high quality springs w a softer spring rate, for i.e eibach sports drop or tein s-techs, it'll be a smooth ride and it's a little bit stiffer, but nothing that'll bother you, almost stock ride . Oh yea, and no it won't affect gas mileage and everything else.

Coilover setups are great if they're high quality and aren't just there for looks like the sleeved ones. Sustec, Tein, and plenty of other products create high quality coilovers ranging from 600+2500. It'll break your bank but it's the best bang for the buck in my case, I'd suggest the tein basic dampers/non adjustables ($650?). That'll do you great w/ overall better performance in handling and you can adjust the height except it won't offer dampening force to your struts.

If you like stock springs keep them on. I wouldn't because I'm into hard cornering and the body roll is ack to me. I don't like going high speeds w/ my stock springs/shocks because I feel that I barely have any control. I don't know though, it's my personal opinion not yours, btw. good luck on figuring out what you want to do.
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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 04:21 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

i got my car lowered as well with rs*r springs. lowered 1.4 in front, .8 in back

overall i can out corner most cars and its fun on twisties. but u need to maintain camber tho ie: strut/tiebars
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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 06:16 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (carbing'ed)

Yeah im not sure I wanna shell out $650'ish for all this. The one thing that I see more positive about coilovers is that they are adjustable. Springs are permanent. And I would assume this is a job you only want to do once. Not change your mind in a week or month and have to redue the whole thing, they would suck.

Still really not sure...... I leaning more towards coilovers but seem like with all the parts it would be more $$... so i dunno..
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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (carbing'ed)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carbing’ed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but u need to maintain camber tho ie: strut/tiebars</TD></TR></TABLE>

Strut tie bars do nothing for camber. Depending on the spring / drop, you most likely won't need a camber kit anyway. Camber doesn't wear tires, toe settings do.

For a first suspension set-up, go with the KYB-AGX adjustable shocks with either Eibach Pro-Kit spings or H&R sport springs. About 1/2 the board is runnning this set up (including me). If you can fork up some more dough, go with the Koni adjustables. Worth every penny, and you can get them revalved to support any future suspension upgrades.

You will not need a camber kit with this set-up, it will give you around 1.75" of drop, and much improved handling. It will give you a little adjustability with the shocks to get you used to suspension set up, with a set ride height and spring rate. It will help you get an idea of what is possible, how you like your ride tuned, and a good starting place for any future upgades (if you find that nescessary). I autocross and track this setup, and I'm pretty impressed with it, and will stick with it until I can afford a good set of coilovers. For a little bit of spirited driving, you may find it's all you need.

I would stay away from coilovers for now. If you start tracking the car, or feel you need better handling at some point, you may want to start looking into it. There are a few good brands out there, but you'll pay for the high quality ones. Some also have variable spring rates to specify when purchasing, and different perches on the shocks depending on what you buy. It'd be tough for you to determine what you want / need at this point, and you don't want to be spending all that money for the full coilovers, and get something you aren't totally happy with.

You can then get some cheap ebay tie bars (works just as good as the brand names) and a sway bar, and be set. The swaybar setup depends on what chassis your running, but SSR and Comptech make good ones with lower tie bars to prevent the subframe from tearing. There's also the stock Si rear bar, but I had alot of trouble finding that one used.

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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (EX_AutoXer)

Ok from reading your post I am agreeing with you.

I think what I might do then, sense I have no ever done this before. Is get a drop, then ride with that for a bit and see how it feels. After some time with that, depending on where i move to (dont wanna live in Houston much longer), I might go to coilovers.
brb
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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaspects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is get a drop, then ride with that for a bit and see how it feels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's just what I did. I didn't have much experience with performance coilovers. I did plenty of research, but it was tough to tell what I would need for my car, since it's alot of preference, and I had never run it with anything but the stock suspension. I've done some test and tune days and played with the settings on my shocks and sway bar, and I'm getting a really good feel for what spring rates and drop settings that I'd like to have for any future upgrades.


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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (EX_AutoXer)

I had to do something....

Ok my next question, sense I am now leaning very much towards just lowering and maybe doing coilovers later.. How do you figure out what a good drop is?
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Old Jul 1, 2004 | 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaspects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok my next question, sense I am now leaning very much towards just lowering and maybe doing coilovers later.. How do you figure out what a good drop is?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Well, the Eibachs and H&R springs were designed to give a good drop without the need for a camber kit, and improve performance. On average it will give you about 1.5 - 1.75" or so (again depending on your chassis and the spring you buy). It will lower the car, but not tuck the wheels. You will end up with about 2 finger gap up front, and 1 in the rear (if you look at your car stock, you will notice that the rear looks lower than the front, common for hondas).

This is pretty much a good drop for any car. You want to lower the CG of your car, but lowering too much will limit shock travel. A slammed car will hurt your performance and blow shocks quickly. There's really no perfect drop or formula to figure it out. Spend some time in the road race / hpde forum and read about their set ups and threads on suspension theories. Google up some autocross tech pages. Again, this is mostly beyond where you're at now, and isn't a concern until you end up with a set of coilovers.

Another thing with just springs is that the car may look lower on the left side when comparing wheel well gaps, which is common with hondas becuase of the weight distribution in the car. I don't even notice it anymore, and nobody who has seen the car has mentioned anything.

Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention, is that unless your civic is a 2001+, it doesn't have 'struts', it has shocks. The newer civics come with a mcpherson strut set up in the front (to save space) that is an inferior setup to the independent wishbone of the 88-00s. Shocks and struts do the same thing, just a slightly different design. The technical term for shocks and struts is dampers, because they dampen the rebound forces of the suspension; shocks and struts are just types of dampers. Just a little pedantry there for you...

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Old Jul 2, 2004 | 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

Good info AutoXer, you did a lot better than me in explaining the details. But yea, AutoXer is giving a good idea of how you want to approach your suspension setup. Just get the feel of your car and then get all the bits and gadgets that you think might be good for your own personal setup. I'm rolling on stock shocks with tein s-techs, 1.6/f 1.6/r I believe, and I find it comfortable and improved my handling drastically from a stock setup. Only thing is I blew my shocks because I'm into hard cornering and twisties also. Well I was thinking about getting the Tein Basic Non-adjustable Coilovers but I decided not to because of my budget, so I'm ordering some KYB AGX's soon, but from your opinion AutoXer, what would be a better shock to go w/ for my tein s-techs? Hmm.. I also would like getting into AutoX because I drive a eg8 for the longer wheel base but too bad I never get any information in AutoX'ng around Seattle, WA area, and they probably don't even have nothing here for AutoX. - Raz
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Old Jul 2, 2004 | 02:05 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (EX_AutoXer)

so if i get Tokico Advanced Handling Suspension Kit: HPK201 that set of kit i don't really need to do anything to the toe and damper right ? and it don't bounce like crazy ... cause my stock shock or sturt also warnout by the coil over from the previous owner

my is 94 dx hatch
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Old Jul 3, 2004 | 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (bbcnet)

Ok, I am going to do either a 1.25-1.50" (f) and 1.50-1.75" (r) drop.

Can some give me a list of like 5-10 repretable (Sp) brands or lowering springs and struts. I dont wanna break the bank. And the shipping is whats going to kill.

From what I could tell from a book.. this looks like a 2 weekend job.

Thanks
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Old Jul 3, 2004 | 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

I have been reading about these "gas" fill struts. DropZone has them. Are these any good? Whats the benefit? Is it cost effective?
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Old Jul 4, 2004 | 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

After reading quite a lot of reviews about Tokico, I like them a lot. The HP's didnt get very good reviews but the Illumina's did. I am trying to find the best deal for these, so far the avg price is $365-$500.. Anyone know where I can get these for a lower price?

I am going to get the H&R lowering springs, they have good reviews and are very affordable.

If anyone doesnt like that combo or has bad experience with them lemme know plz. Thanks. Happy 4th
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Old Jul 5, 2004 | 12:58 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

What drop is the H&R lowering springs you're looking into? tokico illumina's 5way adjustables aren't that bad and should be a great combo, a friend has that combo but he doesn't drive his car hard. but it's good as long you set it to the write dampening adjustment, since you want a near to stock ride I hope you're springs aren't the race specs, I heard they have stiffer spring rates, and the drop is like 2/2.25? but yea, good luck bro.
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Old Jul 5, 2004 | 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (damnraz)

Well after reading lots of reviews I am leaning towards towards the Tokico Illumina's with H&R lowering spring (f) 1.5-1.75 and (r)1.75-2 ... Thats just guessing though, cus I havent seen the diff visually in photos. Plus these are in my price range, and like i said, lots of people like them cus they are adjustable. I am having to get this done within the next month cus I am hearing lots ot creeking noises from both f/r right now. Dont want something to break on me, that would be bad.
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Old Jul 6, 2004 | 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (damnraz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by damnraz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'm rolling on stock shocks with tein s-techs, 1.6/f 1.6/r I believe, and I find it comfortable and improved my handling drastically from a stock setup.

I'm ordering some KYB AGX's soon, but from your opinion AutoXer, what would be a better shock to go w/ for my tein s-techs? </TD></TR></TABLE>

For that drop, the KYB's should be a good choice. Their warranteed to somewhere a 1.75" drop, I beleive. I've heard of people blowing them, but I've been real hard on them with about the same drop as you, and no problems whatsoever. From all the reviews I've read, they're better than the illuminas (according to the majority, there's plenty of oppinions the other way as well), but the ultimate are the Koni Yellows. For now, I'm sticking with the KYB's, and for my set-up, I couldn't be happier with them.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaspects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Can some give me a list of like 5-10 repretable (Sp) brands or lowering springs and struts. I dont wanna break the bank. And the shipping is whats going to kill.
Thanks </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tokico Illuminas, KYB AGX, Koni Yellow shocks. Eibach or H&R springs. See above comments in thread, pick one, repeat as nescessary.

I got my KYB's from http://www.coximport.com for something like $380 shipped. Check around, you'll be able to find some deals, just keep in mind the lowest price may tun out to be a rip because of shipping.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaspects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
From what I could tell from a book.. this looks like a 2 weekend job.
Thanks </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not even close. If it's your first time, should take about 6 hours or so (the first one will take you 3, the others will be much easier once you figure everything out ). Basically its:

1. Remove shock assy.
2. Compress spring
3. Take off mount and mount bits
4. Put parts from 3 onto new shock assy.
5. Reinstall
6. Take to shop for alignment

Of course, this is an oversimplification (so don't take it literally), but it's about what's involved. I've done a few suspensions now, and the last one I did took about 3 hours on my friends Audi. It turned out there was a problem with one of the shocks, and to remove and reinstall the one side took about 1/2 hour or so. The more you do it, the quicker you'll get.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaspects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I am having to get this done within the next month cus I am hearing lots ot creeking noises from both f/r right now. Dont want something to break on me, that would be bad.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Before you start anything, you may want to put the car up and check the bushings. I don't know what car you're running, but the bushings may be gone, and it's much easier to do when you're doing the suspension anyway. You'll already be in there, and have most of it dissasembled.





Modified by EX_AutoXer at 4:14 PM 7/6/2004
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Old Jul 6, 2004 | 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (EX_AutoXer)

Go with the tokico illumina set-up. You can get it for 470$ shipped on ebay. Comes with a 1.75" drop all around. Haven't gotten to driving with the full set on (ran into a little bushing and bolt problem and it still hasn't been resolved).
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Old Jul 6, 2004 | 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Replacing struts.. thinking about springs too..? (vaspects)

bro, go for the tein super streets... best investment youll ever make.. not only can u adjust the height, but you'll notice a big difference in high speed cornering.. trust me.. i take 25 mph turns on 60 and i barely feel any major weight shift cmopared to taking the same turn going 40... invest the money one time and make it right. TEIN!!!

jindiesel.onlineshowoff.com
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