If I'm wanting a stable car for top end speed and good handling, does it really matter which platform to go with? I know there are advantages of having a longer wheelbase like with the DC and EK coupe vs. the EG, but is there <U>really a noticable difference in performance to even consider it</U>?

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

DC - Right off the bat you'll be heavier than the EK & EG. Longer wheel base and wider with a lower height. More aerodynamic due to it's lower roof height? Better handling because of it being wider?

EK (coupe & hatch) - Lighter with a longer wheel base than the EG. Sit's taller than the DC.

EG - Lightest of all. Shares the same suspension as the DC. Shorter wheel base.


1.) Which is more aerodynamic? (for top end speeds)
2.) Which as the best center of mass?? Balance...
3.) EK coupe or the hatch? reasons why? Are they too close to not make a difference?
4.) Which one has the best turning capability and why? cornering..etc...
5.) Which one would be best for top end speeds? Stabibility?

6.) Why is it that all the recognized fast cars are Civics, either a EG hatch (well probably because it's lighter) or the EK hatch....it's very rare to see DC's and or EK coupes.......hhmm the reasons are probably obvious, but just thought I'd ask incase I missing something...

7.) Why is it that in all the JDM videos..it's always EK HATCHES? Lol....Does it really have a more balanced chassis? center of mass etc...

Thanks in advance! Take care..

 

A lot of the decision will be based on the rules you are running under. What sanction and class are you talking about? Minimum weights have particular influence...

K

 

You better check those wheelbase and track measurements again.

 

What are you building this car for? I think that the answers you get are going to depend on that.

Many of us would pick one car for autocrossing and another car for road courses if you were talking absolutes...but in point of fact you could build any one of the three to a point that it would beat the other two in whatever you were doing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...does it really matter which platform to go with?
1.) Which is more aerodynamic? (for top end speeds)
2.) Which as the best center of mass?? Balance...
4.) Which one has the best turning capability and why? cornering..etc...
5.) Which one would be best for top end speeds? Stabibility?
6.) Why is it that all the recognized fast cars are Civics...?</TD></TR></TABLE>

All the recognised fast cars are Civics? Hmm.

I'm going to venture some personal opinions, but please remember this is personal opinion. I have driven DC2 and EG/EH at speed, but not EK.

Most aerodynamic and best balance I'm going to go w/the DC2. An ITR or a vehicle modified in ITR fashion. Part of "most aerodynamic" to me is "most stable" and I definitely feel better in an ITR w/OEM wing than I feel in an EG w/the Spoon hatch lip. The EG is already very heavy over the front wheels, with little to hold the back wheels down. Sooner or later you're doing to have to bring it down fast from 140 or so, and there isn't anything to hold the rear wheels down. All that weight transfer to the front wheels in threshold braking can make for very interesting vehicle behaviour. If you even breathe on the steering wheel, the car will want to dart off in another direction.

Best turning capability? Not sure what you mean, exactly, but the hatch will have a theoretically advantageous polar moment of inertia. The problem to me is that even a well built EG will feel that it's rotating at your feet or at the front wheels, or even ahead of that! A well built DC2 will feel like it's rotating under the seat.

Perhaps if you're building an all-out autocrosser and don't mind managing that polar moment of inertia the EG would be better, but I think that in almost all circumstances I would prefer (personally) the DC2 as the just generally better balanced platform on which to build.

Now, remember that I'm a middle aged guy who is NASA Group 3 and does no racing at all. I'm only doing mid 1:30's at Summit, and the fast guys are ten seconds faster than the old guy is. This is just my personal opinion, and it could be tempered too much by caution.

I have seen how Whittaker and Evans drive, and I remember how Jack Harris drove...and none of those guys were in DC2.

 

EK Hatch has a longer wheelbase than the DC. We have both.

The DC is aerodynamically superior IMO. EK is lighter.

"The EK is a brick"- Andy Hope.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A lot of the decision will be based on the rules you are running under. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
EG - Lightest of all. Shares the same suspension as the DC. Shorter wheel base.</TD></TR></TABLE>

EG's actually have a slightly longer wheelbase.

<U>Wheelbase:</U>
EG = 101.3"
DC = 101.2"
EK = 103.2"
NA1/2 = 99.6"
AP1/3 = 94.5"

<U>Length:</U>
EG = 160.2"
DC = 172.4"
EK = 164.2"
NA1/2 = 173.4"/174.2"
AP1/3 = 162.2"

<U>Width:</U>
EG = 66.9"
DC = 66.7"
EK = 67.1"
NA1/2 = 71.3"
AP1/3 = 68.9"

<U>Height:</U>
EG = 53.0"
DC = 51.9"
EK = 54.1"
NA1/2 = 46.1"
AP1/3 = 50.6"/50.0"

 

Thanks for the input..

Good info Daryl_SP...thx


Everything sounds good, but when it comes down to weight....it's a whole different story?

The DC2 (GSR, wish the typeR but..) I have and have always had that feeling that it was it. The problem I'm trying to overcome is weight. Sitting at ~2,650lbs., that's a lot vs. the EG and EK even.

hhmm....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D.CACO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"The EK is a brick"- Andy Hope.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe compared to his CRX, but was this statement related to the DC2? Just curious...

In answer to the "why Japan develops EK hatch's" It might be because it was a sports platform over there, but here in the US, there wasnt an EK hatch sports platform (Si or Type R) to start with right? we just had CX and DX models with the same 108hp engines, economy-transmissions, and softie suspension.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem I'm trying to overcome is weight. Sitting at ~2,650lbs., that's a lot vs. the EG and EK even. </TD></TR></TABLE>
FWIW my 93 Si w/ B18C swap, full interior, ac, ps, moonroof, and half a tank of gas weighed in last weekend at 2318lbs... come to think of it, that was even with my heavy azz 13's on it too.

christian, who is just offering his $0.03

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D.CACO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"The EK is a brick"- Andy Hope.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe compared to his CRX, but was this statement related to the DC2? Just curious...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The statement was made about the EK's aero. And, yes, we happened to be talking about the DC in that conversation, which aerodynamically is superior IMO. Also, we figured out that the EK doesn't seem to have very many options in regards to adjustable rear wings...

But this isn't a thread about Aero alone.. so Vtec4life, FYI we are at about 2300 lbs in our H1 EK right now (and its pretty damn stipped. CF hood, lexan, 10 lb battery, door guts removed, etc...). The min weight limit for H1 is 2200 (for B series powered cars). SO... when we are talking about weight issues- it's all about the rules. Basically an EG will get to 2200 easier than the EK, and 2200 is very difficult to achieve in a DC. I think* Glen Kawano, Bota, and those H1 DC guys are still above 2300.

So, we still have about 100 lbs to remove, and trying to figure out where to get it from... I suggest we remove the driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You better check those wheelbase and track measurements again.</TD></TR></TABLE>


i would concur watson todd.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D.CACO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The statement was made about the EK's aero. And, yes, we happened to be talking about the DC in that conversation, which aerodynamically is superior IMO. Also, we figured out that the EK doesn't seem to have very many options in regards to adjustable rear wings... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the clarification.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... The problem I'm trying to overcome is weight. Sitting at ~2,650lbs., that's a lot vs. the EG and EK even. ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

But - with respect - you are misssing the point. The rules stipulate a minimum weight that may or may not have anything to do with where you start. It depends what rules you are running. If you aren't constrained by any rules (e.g., "track car" rather than "race car") then the math is easy.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">7.) Why is it that in all the JDM videos..it's always EK HATCHES? </TD></TR></TABLE>

japan never received a 6th gen coupe, only hatch and four door (ferio).