I saw a shootout in this month's car & driver mag where they rated it #1 after a battery of tests.

190 hp, 1900 lbs, toyota celica gts motor with tweaks, a 6spd close ratio tranny, 32mpg, and base sticker just shy of $40k.....

I only have 2 gripes with the car: no B or K series (that toyota motor lacks torque - similar to my honda's), and why is it 4 lug?!.....

It is really making me think hard on reasons to keep modifying my honda's.....

If I win that $150M lottery tomorrow, I'll just go pay cash for one!


Modified by Black R at 1:19 AM 6/23/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I win that $150M lottery tomorrow, I'll just go pay cash for one! </TD></TR></TABLE>

If I win $150,000,000 tomorrow, then the day after I'll buy an F40 for a beater/daily driver!

And the week after, an used F1 car (and crew) for "track days".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and why is it 4 lug?!.....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's wrong with 4 lug?

 

The GTS motor lacks more than torque...it's powerband blows too...VVTI doesn't perform as well as VTEC IMHO.

 

I've been emailing the Canadian Lotus dealers. They are hoping it may come later this year.

Delay due to stricter Canadian bumper safety, and gov't not willing to grant any exceptions.

Boohoo!

 

I am in love with the Elise (and the Exige even more). From everything I have read, including EVO (which I respect very much) this new Elise with the Toyota motor is a HUGE improvement over the older models and is better in every way. I agree it would have been even better with a B series motor, but it is still one of the best driver's cars around.

The Elise is a car I would put in the same class (there aren't many of them) as the ITR regarding pure driver engagement.

There isa Lotus dealership here in Austin and I've stopped ina few times. I have been tempted many, many times - but I just can't lose the R.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What's wrong with 4 lug?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing at all...

 

1) lotus is actually screwing themselves by not regulating the dealers. if they want to get into an already competitive market place (first vehicle they are selling under "mass production" in the US) they need to either increase supply, or restrict price gouging (5-15k over msrp).

2) the wait for one of these nice vehicles is now estimated at 2-3 years. After this years come out, there will also be an increase in price due to the changes in currency rates (british pound vs USD)

3) alot of people rant and rave how light this car is in uk spec form...1600 dry, 1730 wet. The US form is spec'ed out to be under 2000 lbs wet. For 40,000 (this is MSRP), theres so many better vehicles out there for the mass market to choose from. Does this mean its not worth it? not at all, but for the common joe and the weekend warrior, maybe its not the best of choices.



Modified by Captain Commando at 7:24 PM 6/21/2004

 

I'd spend 40 grand on a Mustang Cobra...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GTS motor lacks more than torque...it's powerband blows too...VVTI doesn't perform as well as VTEC IMHO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

they are using the motor with "tuning" and a revised tranny with better gearing. does this mean better gearing or just a higher FD ratio? time will tell, but from the supposid finalized dyno sheets provided for a finalized us prototype, the power band (hp, and torque) dips severely at 4500-5800 rpms, which is pretty much a huge chunk of what would be considered useable.

i think lotus will need to undergo a bit of tuning after the first wave of elises.

in fact, i think for the select market it is trying to cater to, i think they will find some of that market opting to buy both clams/chasis from the UK (clams = chassis) from a wrecked elise then throwing a motor in it for track usage. not only would it be cheaper than 40k, but lighter.

youre not really paying for a motor with the elise, youre also paying a premium for the shell and the lightweight-ness of it

 

one other thing i will mention....the s2 over in the uk (not std elise) has a bit of oversteer dialed into the vehicle by stock.

in the US, they will, of course dial in understeer in stock form. I dont know how they will finalize the tuning, but one item that was thrown around by the engineers (supposidly, from the lotus admin on the lotus official site) was using thinner tires in front, and different spring rates for the suspension.

imo, the US spec elise while it may be a great vehicle or a flop, is not the same as the euro spec by far. different motor, suspension, tuning, chassis, exhaust, ... if they hit it off, they may bring the exige in modified form eventually maybe by 2010

One thing that will be interesting though is how much easier legalizing a euro spec elise will be after the 05-06's come here.

edit: the lotus forums were taken offline a while back. I dont know why, but probably because of the retarded snobs on that board (the i'm better than everyone, including God himself) did to people...actually driving people away from the elise. "oh, you dare mention you own a itr? the elise is the vehicle of all gods"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GTS motor lacks more than torque...it's powerband blows too...VVTI doesn't perform as well as VTEC IMHO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

incorrect. the engine is good but the toyota ECU is krap. this is why lotus reprogrammed the entire thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If I win $150,000,000 tomorrow, then the day after I'll buy an F40 for a beater/daily driver!

And the week after, an used F1 car (and crew) for "track days". </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd buy myself a driving spot with Minardi with all that money.

 

you're almost knocking on Eddie Jordan's door with that cash

Brian

 

You can get a Honda K-series in them...check out http://www.prototyperacing.com

He had one out at the Eibach meet this weekend.

With a supercharger on it it makes over 300hp....get the us elise, and sell the Toyota engine to some poor Celica sap who blew his motor.

 

I'm planning on getting an elise 3 years or so from now if I can find one used.
Seems like the obvious next step from a Type-R.

 

you can put a Honda motor in it though



Brian

 

yep, im waiting for someone to blow the motor and sell the shell

 

that car was at the eibach meet.. someone there told me those lotus cars came wih no motor and u put a motor into it.. i have no idea... i ono anything about this car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It is really making me think hard on reasons to keep modifying my honda's..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Kenny, it's not the right car for you. There isn't much else that can be done to it.

The whole reason you like your ITR and your other Honda is because there is an undending amount of money you can spend on it, and infinite directions you can take your mind in. I don't think *anyone* on this board has had more ideas about ITR modification, however crazy or impractical they were. (7-speed sequential 'box? Where do I sign up?)

The Elise would pin you down too much, I think. Not enough money to be spent

 

If that elise came with the JDM Type R K20 and 6 speed tranny, i think they would double their sales, i sure would be sold. Imagine the performance.

 

Like Flux said, the hardtop EXIGE S2 is the one to get; compared to the Elise:

re-valved Bilstein dampers
aero pkg with front splitter/rear wing (5x/10x more downforce @ 100mph)
special air ducts to front brake discs

Opt. Performance Pkg adds bucket seats w/harness, twin oil coolers, and a few other tasty bits.

Check out the 6/04 issue of CAR (UK)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If I win $150,000,000 tomorrow, then the day after I'll buy an F40 for a beater/daily driver! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm with you on that one Ed!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Captain Commando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

they are using the motor with "tuning" and a revised tranny with better gearing. does this mean better gearing or just a higher FD ratio? time will tell, but from the supposid finalized dyno sheets provided for a finalized us prototype, the power band (hp, and torque) dips severely at 4500-5800 rpms, which is pretty much a huge chunk of what would be considered useable.</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....well the claims were that the motor wouldn't dip below 6200rpm between shifts - thus keeping it on the high lobes all the while.

brian, I know about the b and k series swaps that can be done. I'm just disappointed they weren't done in the first place.

kengs, can we get some comparo pics/ specs of the elise vs exige? I'd prefer a coupe myself.....

ross, don't worry - I was already thinking a boosted kseries would keep me busy... maybe k24ivtec? Or how would an s2k or nsx motor fit.....? I wonder how much an elise would weigh if I gutted it completely.....

big phat and ben, i just don't like 4-lug..... too civic-like. I was also under the impression that 5-lug could handle stress better... if you pop a stud, you'd only have 3 left with a 4-lug..... And we usually stereotype 5-lug as having bigger brakes..... but the elise seems to have decent brakes. It stopped in 160ft compared to the s2k's 162ft. That's a little disappointing since it weighs MUCH less than the s2k, and has much stickier tires (ao48r's).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Captain Commando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) lotus is actually screwing themselves by not regulating the dealers. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is illegal to regulate dealers in the US. They are franchies.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Captain Commando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they are using the motor with "tuning" and a revised tranny with better gearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have not read anything to indicate this, only a revised ECU to keep it on the big cam on redline shifts (among other tuning).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Captain Commando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> is not the same as the euro spec by far. different motor, suspension, tuning, chassis, exhaust, ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

The motor is the same, and the exhaust is different so that US-spec bumpers can be fitted.

Where the hell are you getting all this crap?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was also under the impression that 5-lug could handle stress better... if you pop a stud, you'd only have 3 left with a 4-lug..... And we usually stereotype 5-lug as having bigger brakes..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

It weighs 1900 lbs.. c'mon