Ok well I got into a debate with my friends over coilovers. I've noticed most competition cars around here at least use GC with custom rates and revalved konis. This makes me think that systems like Tein are mainly for *jdm bling* then anything else. They on the other hand think its God's gift to suspension tuning.
I wanted to ask you guys what makes full coilover systems like Tein, Cusco, JIC, etc. so much better then the GC/Koni setup?

 

http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/coilover.html#07
What about "true" coilovers?
The term "true" coilover is a result of the general misnaming of coilovers mentioned above. There is nothing more "true" about these suspension parts. "True" coilovers refers to what is correctly described as integrated threaded body shocks and adjustable lower perch that usually come with the spring. A more proper term should be "full coilover". Typically (not always) these shocks are of better quality than off the shelf shocks like Koni and Tokico and provide more adjustability in shock settings (such as separate ride height adjustment which allows the car to be lowered without sacrificing shock travel). However, you can buy just as high quality shocks with the same adjustability as well from other reputable manufacturers that can be custom valved for your application (and knowledgeable advice in English...) And with adjustable spring perch kits from GC and custom spring rates, it doesnt necessarily make full coilovers any better in equal comparison. What you are generally paying for when buying full coilover kits is a turnkey solution (but not necessarily optimum) with both shocks and springs for your car. Also, keep in mind that most autocrossers and road racers who dont use full coilovers are usually limited to their class rules that dont allow threaded body shocks or remote reservoir shocks and are limited to the number of shock adjustability settings - not just their pocketbooks.

 

some history may help this make more sense.

back in the day, the scca decided that threaded body shocks (aka "full coilovers") didn't fit the "class philosophy" of improved touring because they were really expensive (think penske, ohlin etc), so they weren't allowed. Racers, being racers, still wanted coilovers on their IT cars, so mfgrs started making threaded sleeves that fit over regular production shocks. Functionally, there's no difference. Today you can get threaded body shocks that cost less than good non-threaded body shocks and because of this the scca now allows (or soon will) threaded body shocks in IT.

 

and then you have the racers who take a threaded body penske shock and machine the threads off, and slide a ground control sleeve over it.

thx scca

 

Also isnt there the advantage of custom spring rates with the ground controls?? Because I've never heard of custom spring rates on Teins....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EK4civichatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because I've never heard of custom spring rates on Teins....</TD></TR></TABLE>

ALL coilover setups can be fitted with custom spring rates. You just have to ask.

The reason you don't hear about it much is that so many people get it in their head that because it came from the factory it must be the perfect setup for their application.

JDM coilovers do get a lot of flack but I think most of it is just from the fact it's "JDM". However, where else are you going to get an adjustable body length, adjustable compression/rebound, adjustable spring perch, and a perfect fit out of the box for under $2k?

If you're really pinching pennies I think Koni/GC is the best bang for the buck (I did so for my CRX track car) but If you aren't so financialy restricted (or restricted by rules) then you can get a lot more adjustability for a little more money with a threaded body coilover (I did so for my Integra autocross car).

 

hey, you wouldnt happen to be using some JDM *bling* coilovers, would ya?

 

Autocross Integra:
Custom Zeal B6. Highly adjustable and suited well for the large variance in autocross courses and surface conditions.

Track CRX:
Custom Koni/GC. Much less adjustable but there is less variance in the track and surface conditions.

 

I rode in my friend's WRX wagon with Teins and he was running something like 750f/400r in the rear and it felt better than my 350f/400r springs on my Civic.

I think matched spring shock combo is the way to go. I'm looking into some Teins myself for autocross. As someone said not much adjustability with the Konis and Ground Controls.

 

Really? A WRX with those rates? I'm very suprised as WRX's tend to like much much softer rates than Honda's tend to enjoy.

In the end it comes down to bang for the buck vs adjustability and ease to purchase/install. The Koni/GC setup is great for the majority of us and generally is on par with the entry level "JDM" stuff from Tein, Zeal, BC and the like. But when you get into stuff like inverted damper design, remote reservoir, oversized shaft, shortened shock from the factory like that for many people are just "easier" to get from the Japanese companies that make the "full" coilovers specificly per car vs the part together stuff that will be as good if not better like the Ohlin, Advance Design, Penske items. Which is better? Probably neither as they're both very good setups but good luck for the "JDM" people who need rebuilds or new items for their setups. You will pay the premium to get springs and rebuilds if they don't have a HQ in the US. All this being said I have a set of Tein HA's... only complaint I have about them is that they have a crap surface coat and they rust in California weather!

But then again with the US based companies you don't have the "bling" factor. Far too often I hear something along the lines of "Who the heck is hypercoil?? They must suck if I haven't heard of them"...

 

How is it that the TEIN has more adjustability than a Koni? The Koni can be readily revalved (in shop), can the TEIN. The Koni has several adjustments available either external or internal. The external adjustment range is actually quite large for the "Sport" (yellow) series. Does TEIN shorten their shafts as an option. The fact is the Koni is as good or better as a shock. How you mount the springs is a different matter.
I have seen the Zeal setup on several cars and it is very good. The majority of people I know racing Hondas with NASA this year are happy with the Koni/GC or Koni/Skunk setups they have (me too). When the new rule is used there are a number of American companies that currently produce really adjustable shocks that are threaded-and at reasonable price points for what they are. I'll stick with Koni-they have always worked for me. We setup our CRX using custom spring rates; will TEIN accomodate that at no additional cost or at all for that matter? Just another view....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is it that the TEIN has more adjustability than a Koni? The Koni can be readily revalved (in shop), can the TEIN. The Koni has several adjustments available either external or internal. The external adjustment range is actually quite large for the "Sport" (yellow) series. Does TEIN shorten their shafts as an option. The fact is the Koni is as good or better as a shock. How you mount the springs is a different matter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

TEINs can be revalved, but only by TEIN (they wont give out any specs/info). TEIN's shafts are already shortened on the higher end models (flex, RA, etc.) to match the springs they come with. TEIN also offers a pretty wide range of different spring rates @$50 a peice.

Im not expressing my opinion in any way. Just adding more info.

edit for spelling

 

I personally wish i would have gone with the koni/ground control setup instead of my Tein basic kit, but since im stuck with it im thinking about swithcing my spring rates. The basic kit comes with 448 lbs/in front, 224 lbs/in rear....and ive heard of people switching the front springs with the rear springs, in order to have a stiffer setup in the rear. Im thinking this would improve my personal setup which is a removed front swaybar, itr rear swaybar. Sorry to jack this thread...but ive been wondering about this since i installed them on my car. Any opinions? OR should i just buy different springs w/ stiffer rates from Tein?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will pay the premium to get springs and rebuilds if they don't have a HQ in the US.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as springs go, they're all standard ID racing springs as far as I know. Measure the height, measure the diameter, buy what you want from Eibach or Hypercoil or whomever. You might end up with red coils on your pretty green shock, oh well.

The big names do have US headquarters now. No problem getting Tein, JIC, A'pex, HKS, or Zeal rebuilt stateside.

 

BUMP.. bringing this thread back! its a good thread!

 

well things have changed i first wrote my faq. you can now run fully threaded shocks in IT and honda challenge i believe. youll likely see more ppl using newer suspensions as ppl start to spend more money on different full coilover setups. then again, the revalved koni and gc is a proven winner. why mess with it if it aint broke.

actually, the only thing the GC sleeves dont give you is independent ride height and shock travel adjustment. which some full coilovers give, but not all. while some full coilover shocks just stink...

i know owners/users of the HIGHER END zeals and teins who have been very satisfied with their performance btw.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can now run fully threaded shocks in IT and honda challenge i believe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup. HC since the beginning. IT as of 05.