ok here is the deal i have friends with ludes and they say that the H22A is not good at all for boost. to much overlap and that the H23 is way better. well my freind and i are wanting to do a swap in a 93 hatch si. we thought that it would throw down tons of hp and torque. are we wrong? if you guys could help us out that would be great. everyone keeps saying gsr motor. but we want HUGE power easier then the gsr. HELP US!!!!!

 

The reason that the H22a isn't that good for turbocharging is b/c it's harder to tune a turbo w/ VTEc than a turbo without VTEC. I'd go with an H23a instead b/c it's cheaper and you won't have to deal with tuning VTEC and a turbo. You could still go with an H22a if you wanted. People have turbocharged them and they're damn fast.

 

h22a is great for turbo if you can get the oiling system working the way how your turboo kit wanted. which that would be really hard. the h22a has a auto intesioner for the timming and its not manually, which if you boost too much it might have to mess up your timming belt and your oil pump. The oil pump, i think that would be the weakest point for the h22a turbo. so if you can improve the oil system in the h22a with turbo, than that monster should be really good.
i'm not really good with h22a turbo, but this is all i know. hope i help.
also if you're looking for a h22a i can get you one for less than 3100 shipped to you. give me a call if you have any questions.
good luck

 

People like the H23a because it's simpler and cheaper. The H22a has more potential as a turbo engine. Better rod/stroke, oil squirters for piston cooling, and just better air flow.

If you want a better oil pump, ProDriveUSA makes replacement oil pump gears for the H22a. http://www.prodriveusa.com

 

the h22a has a very hard time making power past vtec. Ive seen countless dyno graphs where the power sky rocketed all the way to 5000-5400 rpms, but after that it kinda mellows out.

 

Cam gears will solve all your issues with that. If the H22A is such a bad turbo motor, then why are so many NIRA guys running them?

Food for thought.

 

Cam gears did help my problem, i made 17 hp with them, but the funny thing was, i made the power by advancing the intake and retarding the exuast. Im still confused as to how i made power by increasing overlap. I know the prelude motor has potential for some raw power with turbo, and the NIRA guys have proven it, but i havent seen anyone else.

 

I think one problem here is the ambiguity of the question. Todd make a good point in that yes, if you have the $$$$$$$$$$$$ to build a full-race motor, the H22 is fine for turbocharging. BUT, if you are talking about the typical street-use performance motor, then no, the H22 is pretty crappy for turbocharging, just like the B-series VTECs. Sure you might be able to make decent power for a very short period of time, but I don't know of anyone who has just stuck a bolt-on turbo on an H22 and gotten 10K miles out of it, and I think most of them go within 1000! If you are looking for a basic project street car, I'd go w/ the H23 - lower static compression, less moving parts, and cheaper. Honda VTEC motors are pretty awesome engines for what they are, but the high output NA typically makes an extremely poor candidate for forced induction.

Paul

 

There's your reasoning for longer life. Our high compression motors are designed for the N/A route from the factory. I don't know that I'd ever turbo a motor that wasn't built. I sometimes forget that many people are afraid of internal motor work.

 

http://www.h22a.org/vortechcivic.htm

i dont see any problem. yes, it's a supercharger and not a turbo, but it is a vortech and therefore has many similar characteristics with a turbo.

 

My God, you are so uninformed.

B-series vtecs are crappy!?? Dude, those are the easiest things in the world to turbo. Throw on a basic Drag kit and you will be in the 240-260 whp range. Just check in the FI forum.

I am running on 15K plus miles since I turboed my lude, compression numbers are identical before and after.




[Modified by Inlinefour, 5:44 PM 11/12/2001]

 

I stand by my statement. Your sig says you have an Si - that's what I would recommend for turbocharging. How many of those people putting out 240-260 WHP are still on their original motor? Damn few. Honda VTECs don't suffer fools lightly when subjected to forced induction. You have no margin for error. I'm uninformed? Fine; I am basing my statements on observations of the expensive lessons of MANY others on this and other boards.

Paul

PS - I'm not going to bother flaming you; I suspect Todd will take care of that.


[Modified by tec-9-7, 4:26 PM 11/12/2001]

 

No way Paul. He's all yours.

I take it uninformed is much worse that just being illiterate.

The pistons that Honda uses are NOT as boost friendly as they could be. Especially when you look at the compression numbers. My Conquest has 7.5:1 CR (with factory turbo) and my Lude started off with 10:1. Any WONDER why the Conquest is more boost friendly?

 

if you're complaining about why you don't make that much power after 5400 RPM, then why not look into some custom cams for your setup. top end!!!! thats one thing prelude motors don't have. so improve it and make it rip ***

 

As much as I respect most of your postings, tec-9-7, that B-Series comment is way off. They are dead easy to turbo and make serious power with little modification using basic fuel control. There are many people running turbo B series engine far longer that 10k miles.

My own turbo on stock bottom end I ran for about 10k miles. I pulled it to rebuild it and the pistons where mint. I wish I turned up the boost.

I agree definetely the H22a is a finicky motor and requires special attention to get proper power out of. If you do it right you have more potential than a stock H23a with the same level of reliability. Especially the H22a1 with it closed deck and stronger ringlands.

This is Pure Lude's dyno. Stock H22a4 with Drag2 and Hondata at 7.5psi. The curve looks a little misleading. The torque and hp curves actually cross each other, it looks like they touch and the spread apart. Horsepower goes up in a nice straight arc. Torque has a bit of a hump, but nothing that's not normal. There's a guy here who's using a F-Max kit on an H22a1, using an EFI systems PMS for fuel control who dynoed 260 with similar curve.

I think my point in all this is to say, it can be done and it offers more potential, you just need to know what you're doing. Otherwise, blow all the H23a motors you want.

 

Honda pistons aren't boost friendly because of the thin ring lands. They break easily under heavy detonation or extreme horsepower.

7.5:1 compression gives you a bloated margin of tuning error and great lack of torque.

Many race hondas run 30+ psi on 10:1 compression. Now, that is a little unrealistic for any street car of course. It's all about tuning. If you can't tune/monitor your own car, or pay a pro to do it for you, you don't have any business with a turbo honda. Period. People going around saying XXX kit blew their engine shows their lack of intelligence gives turbo hondas a bad name.

Turbo integra ls's pull far fewer hp than turbo gsr's. One has vtec, the other doesn't.

For a street car, vtec + turbo = good. Yeah on a strictly race turbo honda, they may disable vtec and only use one cam profile, but their also pushing 30+ psi.

 

And because they aren't built to withstand high temp.'s.

Quite the opposite. Stock the Conquest has more torque than most Hondas could ever dream of. Modify it, and the numbers climb. In fact, if you look at almost any modded TSI (from lightly turning up the boost to heavily building and slapping a t04 on it) the torque numbers are always higher than the HP numbers. There are people running a nice head (no jet valve) with a cam and stiffer springs, stock bottom end, and a standalone ECU with four injectors pulling mid to high 12's. Hows that for your bloated margine of error?

I've run race gas on a daily basis... let me tell you, its not fun. Also, would you run 30psi on stock pistons? Yeah, thought so.

That goes for anything you build.

Because the LS doesnt have the high end profile that a geezer does. Take a Turbo LS and slap a sweet cam and spring package on it, and then drag race it where you don't dip below the power curve, and you have one fast *** car.

You got one thing right.

 

#1 7.5:1 and 10:1 in the same motor are going to have a large torque difference. I am comparing apples to apples, not conquests to hondas.

#2 Nope, and I said it was unrealistic.

#3 Running high 12's has nothing to do with margin of tuning error. The lower the compression, the more forgiving the motor is to tuning mistakes.

#4 Really?!

 

ttt

 

hmm... strange my turbo h22a has 20k miles post turbo 10k before that were spraying a 65hp shot of nitrous and it currently has 120k miles total on it, including countless drag strip trips and autox's... i'd say thats reliable...

 

Nice title. I think I'll change mine to reflect it.

 

I worship JG.

 

Okay I'll give it to you, that's funny. But I am still keeping mine.

 

I knew it.

 

Hey JG Luder, you're one funny ************. I like your style. Heineken!!!!!! BABY!!!