any ways i was just wondering from your own experience which motors light up at vtec? my buddys c1 hits hard but im not sure if we're feeling vtec or secondaries, and with my Z6 i cant even tell---> NEED A CAM

so if you have any experience with any vtec motor id appreciate your input.

 

only one that i feel hits the hardest aint even a honda its a toyota celica. the car jumps once vvtli hits. the wheel even twitches.
but i dont think it really matters....

 

If the motor kicks really hard at vtec, chances are the vtec engagment point is set too high.

 

I would say the kick has nothing to do with the rpm that it engages. I think it has more to do with the primary vs. secondary lobes on the camshafts.

For instance- Toda cams have large primaries and te vtec crossover is very subtle.

In contrast to Toda- Jun cams have smaller primarys and huge duration on the VTEC lobe thus causing a drastic change in engine tone and decibel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by asubennett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it has more to do with the primary vs. secondary lobes on the camshafts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree.

I would say it has more to do with the tuning. For example, Toda B/C's like a higher crossover. Now how you tune it is directly proportional to the lobe size and ramp angle, but the actual crossover effect is not caused by this.

On a perfectly tuned motor, you will not feel the crossover per se, but you will feel a nice smooth increase in acceleration.

I'd like to steal this graph from Sgt, who used to always test us on where he tuned the crossover at...lets see if anyone can guess.

 

5500-5600

 

If it was tuend with Hondata I am goign to say 3000-3500. He does weird stuff like that. Unless this is a Toda C cam. I will guess 7100 rpm.

 

I would say around 5500

 

between 4500 and 5000 ?


WAIT, thats an LS motor graph

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by asubennett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would say the kick has nothing to do with the rpm that it engages. I think it has more to do with the primary vs. secondary lobes on the camshafts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is a pretty lame topic. Utlimately if properly tuned and vtec engagement is dialed in to optimize powerband then there wont be a kick. If you want a "kick" simply move the vtec engagement 1000 rpm higher and that will do it. Of coarse now you are running the motor of the primary lobes too long, so VE will drop causing a lost in torque and power, but when the secondary lobes finally engage you will be in the VE sweet spot of the secondaries, thus torque and power will jump considerably, giving you your "kick" in the bum.

Bottom line is the "kick" has everything do with tuning and vtec engagement. If you have a "kick" then you have dialed in the wrong engagement point or your tuning is not optimized.


To properly dial in vtec engagement, you make two passes, one with vtec low (~3000) and one with vtec high (~7000). Then set vtec to point wherer power curves intersect. You may have to tweak a few hundred rpm, but this will yield the maximum area under the power curve.

 

5,600?

 

7300 ?

That is one beautiful graph, mine was pretty similar but minus about 60hp

 

I remember this and I think it's like 3500.

 

"Toda Spec B cams, Toda valve springs, toda cam gears, portflow ti retainers, portflow P&P head, rc 310 injectors, aem fuel rail, ctr .25 pistons, pe timing belt, dc jdm header, carsound cat, sms exhaust, act hdss clutch, fidanza flywheel, jdm final drive, hondata management, a few other little things here and there.

VTEC set at 6300 rpms"

 

Mine engages at 6k, the cross over is plain as day, wether you're full throttle or 1/8th throttle, the motor changes and EVERYONE rubbernecks. It's an incredible difference, and I have the stock cams in my car......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is a pretty lame topic. Utlimately if properly tuned and vtec engagement is dialed in to optimize powerband then there wont be a kick. </TD></TR></TABLE>



The future gets even sadder for you riceboys... the i-VTEC setups you can't even HEAR VTEC transition when everything is properly tuned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The future gets even sadder for you riceboys... the i-VTEC setups you can't even HEAR VTEC transition when everything is properly tuned.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree......
my friend with a 2002 civic SI.... is sorta pissed he cant hear it....
he used to own a b16 CRX.
but another friend just bought an RSX type S... and you can hear it clear as day.


what gives? could his RSX be "inproperly tuned" from the factory?

maybe people beat on it during test drives.... i dont know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i agree......
my friend with a 2002 civic SI.... is sorta pissed he cant hear it....
he used to own a b16 CRX.
but another friend just bought an RSX type S... and you can hear it clear as day.


what gives? could his RSX be "inproperly tuned" from the factory?

maybe people beat on it during test drives.... i dont know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's because the K20a3 in the civic si doesn't have real VTEC. It has a lame eco-VTEC meant to just improve fuel economy and emissions. Its the same motor that is in the base RSX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's because the K20a3 in the civic si doesn't have real VTEC. It has a lame eco-VTEC meant to just improve fuel economy and emissions. Its the same motor that is in the base RSX.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.

The SI and base RSX basically have VTEC only on the intake camshaft, along with cam timing. Where as the RSX-S and JDM K20A's have conventional VTEC, plus the added cam timing feature...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could his RSX be "inproperly tuned" from the factory? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you asking from a performance or an emissions standpoint?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hayabusa160 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">only one that i feel hits the hardest aint even a honda its a toyota celica. the car jumps once vvtli hits. the wheel even twitches.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

now that is the ******' truth. this guy actually thought about the question. it is a stupid post, though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup.

The SI and base RSX basically have VTEC only on the intake camshaft, along with cam timing. Where as the RSX-S and JDM K20A's have conventional VTEC, plus the added cam timing feature...</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's because the K20a3 in the civic si doesn't have real VTEC. It has a lame eco-VTEC meant to just improve fuel economy and emissions. Its the same motor that is in the base RSX.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you learn something everyday..... i didnt know that it only had vtec on the intake cam....
similar to SOHC VTEC then..... i was wondering about the lackluster track times this thing has put out. any way to actually bump up power in this thing? maybe a head from a RSX-S ? or complete swap would probably be a better scenario.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
any way to actually bump up power in this thing? </TD></TR></TABLE>

JDM K20 head or RSX-S head, Toda cam package, and higher compression forged pistons. This setup can make up to 250whp with good supporting mods and Hondata K-Pro tuning.

 

thanks.....
just spoke with the owner....
thinks he wants to go turbo.

 

It depends how you tune it

Here some simple kick it the street Set ups

H22A Basic Bolt Ons



LS VTEC Mild Built Set Up