this will be on a d16y8 , goal is at least 400whp but i want to have extra room

COMPRESSOR SPECS:

flow: 46 lbs/min 588cfm

50 TRIM WHEEL

TURBINE SPECS:
63 A/R HOUSING

STAGE 3 WHEEL

standard with 270 degree thrust bearing

oil lubricated centersection.

this is a 50 trim t3/to4e

 

i believe that 50 trims are good to around 400-450 whp

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this will be on a d16y8 , goal is at least 400whp but i want to have extra room

COMPRESSOR SPECS:

flow: 46 lbs/min 588cfm

50 TRIM WHEEL

TURBINE SPECS:
63 A/R HOUSING

STAGE 3 WHEEL

standard with 270 degree thrust bearing

oil lubricated centersection.

this is a 50 trim t3/to4e</TD></TR></TABLE>

588cfm/1.2 = 490hp max. You do know that 46lbs/min isn't 588cfm though right?

 

actually i didnt know that


hehe

should i go with a 63 a/r?

 

what rpms should this turbo spool at , will i experience alot of lag with this turbo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what rpms should this turbo spool at , will i experience alot of lag with this turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>

it shouuldn't be too bad, my friend runs a t3/to4e 50 trim .48ar on his stock d16z6

 

thats a great turbo for a 300 plus sohc. Thats what i plan on getting next.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually i didnt know that


hehe

should i go with a 63 a/r?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know what A/R to reccomend for you bro. I don't remember the exact conversion, (althouth I think it's .765 for lbs/min to CFM, but then again, I'm quite intoxicated at the moment) but without knowing much about your desired set-up, It's really hard for me to say.

 

heres the complete setup . and keep in mind i only want 400whp but i dont wannt do it at 40lbs of boost , id like a lower boosting motor , say 20lbs . 2 bar at the most . but i dont want such a big turbo that it spools for 2 grand and thats the end of it.

2000 d16y8 block
AEBS T sleeves , notched , decked and o-ringed .
CP 9.0:1 pistons 75mm
pauter rods
fully assembled , balanced and blueprinted by AEBS

2000 d16y8 head
full P&P
isky valvetrain
rs machines stage 3 cam
rc880 injectors
not sure on the throttle body but str or ericks racing.

lovefab ss mani id most likely going in
ubertata

now all i need is turbo choice , and when i have to buy everything new for this setup , im looing to save money wherever i can , and these t3/t04e's arnt to expensive

 

That's what I wanted to see. Now lemme ask you...what rpm are you going to rev it to, and what's going to be the final displacement of the engine?

I'm not big on the injectors, but then again, I do my fuel systems much different that 99% of the people I've ever met.

 

im going to be revving the engine most likely to 8k max . depending on where the cam stops making power . final displacement will be 1.6 , keeping it stock bore and stroke.

what fuel injectors do you recomend . i have 440s now and that wont do for my new setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im going to be revving the engine most likely to 8k max . depending on where the cam stops making power . final displacement will be 1.6 , keeping it stock bore and stroke.

what fuel injectors do you recomend . i have 440s now and that wont do for my new setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's what you look like plotted on a compressor map with the figures you gave:


The green X's are the range you should be in and the Red X is where you actually are. The purple X is where you'd be at 28psi which is "no more boost" land. It'd just be blazing hot air.

Your pressure ratio is 3.43 and your suction flow is 40.2 at 20psi and 49.5ft/lb at 28psi, in the event that you wanted to plot against other maps. P.S. I compared this map against EVERYTHING garrett had between a T04E 46 trim to a T04E Super 60 trim. Everythin else was either too small or too big. This seemed to be the best compromise. HTH.

For the fuel injectors, I'd rather not state, because this'll turn into a huuuuuuuge arguement about fuel systems. If you like the 880's then just stick with them. Won't be any probs.

 

while the 50 trim is one of the better suited turbo's for the d series, i think you will have a VERY hard time making 400whp @~20psi.

 

man i cant understand that flow chart at all , so what needs to be my plan of action then???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while the 50 trim is one of the better suited turbo's for the d series, i think you will have a VERY hard time making 400whp @~20psi. </TD></TR></TABLE>

VaporTrail made 345whp @ 15lbs with a ...

* Turbonetic's T3/T04, E compressor cover, .60 A/R compressor, 50 trim compressor wheel, .48 A/R turbine housing, stage 3 turbine wheel

I think the .48 A/R turbine housing would be better for the d16y8.

 

but what would be the best for a low boost 400whp d series?

 

keep in mind i want at least 400whp , so i dont want to max a turbo out at 400...i just have no idea what to get

 

57 trim maybe? i dunno i just think a 60 trim will take forever to spool and im not a fan of that..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while the 50 trim is one of the better suited turbo's for the d series, i think you will have a VERY hard time making 400whp @~20psi. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What would make you think that. At the point the red X is plotted at it's putting out over 520cfm. That's already enough CFM to support 430hp and you still have room to go.

 

You need to find a turbo that'll leave you in one of the efficiency islands with what you realisitially want to achieve. This is that turbo. I included your figures a few posts up. Just plug them in to any other compressor map that you'd like and see if any others can get you into a higher range of efficiency.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but what would be the best for a low boost 400whp d series?</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keep in mind i want at least 400whp , so i dont want to max a turbo out at 400</TD></TR></TABLE>

These two concepts usually don't exist in the same place at the same time. If you want "low boost" and high power then you may want to look into one of the high-dollar GT units. Otherwise, you'll be sitting in 20psi land. That's the harsh reality of turbos. Not for nothing, but if I were in your shoes, I'd throw a boost number out the window and only worry about HP, then build backwards. It'd go something like this:

I want to make at least 400chp.
I need at least 500CFM to see 400chp.
I need to find a turbo that'll put out 500CFM in a boost range that I'll actually use.
I need X amount of fuel to support at least 500 CFM.
I need X parts to maintain 400hp.

That should be the trend of thought, IMO. Everything else is just details. Also consider that (insert hugemongous turbo here) may make more hp/psi, but takes longer to spool and may be efficient in a place where you don't live. I'll simplify the compressor map above if it'll make more sense that way.



Okay. The lower of the two green X's is a "best case" scenario. If you could end up there (which is nearly impossible in the real world) you'd be sitting hella pretty. The upper green X shows the "worse case" scenario. If you're at that point, you'll still make good power and the turbo will still be within its bounds of power output vs. power requests. Where the purple X is, is no mans land. Anything off the actual compressor map (like the purple X is) is just blowing hot air (in reality about 300-400*F). The turbo is spinning too fast, generating too much friction, and is too small to compress that much air and still not have the temps (which are the thermal basic physics of air compression) not skyrocket, so anything where the purple is a big no-no.

Factors that make the ft/min (horizontal axis), which is another way of measuring air mass like CFM is, are boost level, engine volumetric efficiency, atmospheric temps, and RPM (since as the engine revs higher it produces more CFM naturally). Factors that alter the pressure ratio (vertical axis) is boost, ambient barometric pressure, the pressure that the turbo is putting out at it's outlet and the amount of air that the turbo is ingesting while at idle (relatively outside of your control).

To increase a value on the horizontal scale, you can rev higher, make the engine more volumetrically efficient, or increase the desired boost (or run at a cooler ambient temp). The opposite is true to decrease this number.

To increase the value on the vertical scale, you can decrease the boost, and or alter a multitude of factors that are outside of your control like outside temps and barometric pressure.

You've probably already noticed that boost is a factor on both scales. So naturally, as you progress with one in one direction you'll be progressing with another in the other direction, so as boost increases, you go more diagonally to the upper right, and the oppisite as boost is decreased. You'll notice that the purple X is diagonal of the red X with nothimg more than greater boost. Of course you can alter one of the scales alone, but the odds of such an event are equal to the odds of Christina Aguilera knocking on my door requesting to deliver a BJ while Brittany Spears watches and entertains herself. Which contrary to popular beliefe is unlikely.

I hope I didn't confuse matters, and this by no means tells you how to get your own numbers (because there's a few threads already on the subject) but I hope it gets you a little more of a grasp on something that's such a neccessity in the turbo world. If you would like some clarification, by no means hesitate to ask.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1316130057 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What would make you think that. At the point the red X is plotted at it's putting out over 520cfm. That's already enough CFM to support 430hp and you still have room to go.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im not saying its impossible...just very unlikely to hit 400whp @20psi with that turbo on a d16. I think it will take alittle more boost to reach 400whp.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=692881

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats a great turbo for a 300 plus sohc. Thats what i plan on getting next.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this all sounds like an SC50... i was too wondering the same on the lag and if it is worth it to keep the 50 trim... not trying to jack, just want to know the same things too

EDIT= everything is clear now (to me).... now that i finished reading the thread


Modified by loco_ese at 4:51 PM 5/23/2004

 

i had sombody sit down with me and figure out flow for my motor and matched a good turbo for me mathmatically and came up with a T04e 54 trim that would yield me 400whp at like 14.795 lbs of boost or somthing , took about 30min to do all the caculations . so thats what im goiing with , i learned alot of stuff about boost . mainly to find a turbo to do all the work and not the motor.

thanks bigboost for expplaining the flow chart for me i appreciate it , and all the info given in here .

 

400whp at less than 15psi on a d series?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Im not saying its impossible...just very unlikely to hit 400whp @20psi with that turbo on a d16. I think it will take alittle more boost to reach 400whp.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=692881</TD></TR></TABLE>

That all depends on the timing. If it's run too retarded, you could have 20psi on a T76 and still not make 100hp. There's more factors at play than just boost alone.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">everything is clear now (to me).... now that i finished reading the thread</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had sombody sit down with me and figure out flow for my motor and matched a good turbo for me mathmatically and came up with a T04e 54 trim that would yield me 400whp at like 14.795 lbs of boost or somthing , took about 30min to do all the caculations . so thats what im goiing with , i learned alot of stuff about boost . mainly to find a turbo to do all the work and not the motor.

thanks bigboost for expplaining the flow chart for me i appreciate it , and all the info given in here . </TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't mention it guys. It's no trouble at all. Wait a sec......