I just picked up a mint condition 88 civic DX from the original owner for $1,000. It runs great but of course the 80 something horsepower gets old fast. Ive been reading up on the EF's and it seems the B16 swap is easy and fairly cheap. I know that motor has very low torque but I got to thinking about maybe doing a jackson racing supercharger with it. Im not looking for gobs of power, just a good solid daily driver.

So my questions are would this motor (in stock form) take well to a JR supercharger? With the motor being a VTEC and having a supercharger, how bad will I kill the gas mileage? Also, what else would you guys recommend I equip the motor with (intake, header, exhaust?)

I think thats it for now. Thanks in advance.

 

The canned response is to search, there's prolly 100+ posts in the archives on this, but i'll toss ya my 2¢...

Speaking from the seat of personal experience, as an owner of a '91 DX b16 hatch, i can say it wasn't as "budget" as i had expected. The motor can be found relatively cheap, but you have to budget for mounts, axles, clutch, at least intake and exhaust if not a header.

Then, of course, there's things you should replace while the motor's out (especially on a 1st gen) like water pump, timing belt, etc.

That's a fair chunk of cheese right there to get the (basically) stock motor in and running happily.

I don't have any 1st hand experience with Jackson's SC, but i do like the fact that the nature (i.e. power curve) of the motor is retained, just raised. For example, the dyno plot would show the same curve as stock, just raised about 40%. Not bad for a bolt-on, even though i'm guessing that "bolt-on" will end up running you $2,500-$3K.

For the money, i'd personally build the motor N/A. If your looking for a daily driver that gets good mileage, is easy to drive, but still gets up when you slam the go pedal, that'd work. Minimal hassle as well because there's no forced induction, no heat issues etc. I'd guesstimate mileage at around 26-28 mpg, with 30+ obtainable on the highway. Driveability is no issue, because it's all (more or less) stock honda parts.

Example: jackson's site has their SC'd b16 (a 99-00 Si, which actually has slightly better cams than the 1st gens) putting out 190 hp & 138 tq (to the wheels) These numbers could be reproduced relatively easily, w/mainly honda parts, in a 1.8 block build.

If you're looking at a swap plus forced induction, you're looking at spending big $$$$. I'd venture to guess $6-7K, all told. For that money you've got a lot of other options on the table.

The choice is yours...

From_Zer0

 

I was thinking of possibly going with a bigger displacement motor like a b18 but I didnt know if it would mount up correctly. I would prefer to keep it N/A because this is my daily driver.

So I guess my question now is how hard is setting up a b18 in these cars? I might be willing to spend the extra money for a c5 but Ill look around for prices.

Thanks for the well written responce from zero.

 

Get a C5, it may be a little harder, but O will it be fun

 

They are like $5,000 from topendmotorsports.com. I could get better power out of a supercharged b16 and spend a little less money.

 

my advice to you is to keep your car stock for a while and keep reading on HT.
whenever you get a crazy engine idea, go search for it and see what it really consists of. its more than just bolting on a blower. ive had my car for a year and havent touched the engine yet.
first i wanted I/H/e
then b16 swap
then turbo my ls motor
then i bought suspension
now i *think* i figured out my engine plans. but im still reading on that too.
youll change your mind many times before you decide.
look into suspension as a first mod too.

 

Yea I know, thats what all car guys do. Im not going to touch the car for now. But it does have 195,000 miles on it so the engine still has some juice left but Im just thinking down the road.

I was wondering, is there a guage cluster swap I can do so I will have a tach? Just curious.

 

a buddy of mine with a 91 dx hatch, put a cluster in his car from a 91 lx sedan.

it plugged right in. junkyard $17

but i *think* you need a 88-89 cluster becuase the 90-91 are different.
also if you have a 5spd get a 5spd cluster

 

Yea its a 5 speed. Thanks for the helpful insight.

 

1. learn your car very well
2. get a good suspension
3. drive someone else's car with a B16 in it, and make your decision, you can talk all the crap about it all you want but a B16 is perfect for daily driving in a EF/ED chassis, 111 foot pound of torque is enough for the car if you are looking for more power, and not looking for crazy power, that is more torque than your old motor produced HP, the B16 swap is gonna run you little over 2 large, parts are expensive for it, and blah blah blah, you should first get the engine, rebuild it, put it in, and drive it, then decide if you want FI

 

b18=better torque than b16
b18=better gear ratio for turbo
b18=better than b16

just an opinion, but one thats expressed quite often on h-t.
and the amount of fabrication needed to put in a b18 is the same as a b16. dent for the alternator, bend the rear xmember (go on hasport.com theyll show you what im talking about), mounts, shift linkage, ecu. thatll run you up to like 2k-3k with an ls (b18). good luck. and search next time.

 

I see what you guys are saying but Im not comparing a b18 to a b16 power wise. If you would READ what was written I was discussing the price to power ratio. I know I can search, but that wont give me the answers I am looking for as quickly. And you idiots that reply without useful information make this process more difficult. If you dont have anything useful to say then keep your mouth closed. Thanks to you who are helping though.

 

The choices are mind-numbing. What I would do is decide how much I am willing to spend within a specific period of time. Say 12 months. Then decide what is important. I would do suspension/brakes as a given and wheels/tires.

While I was doing phase one, I would decide based on the money I was willing to spend what the best options were. Pic HP/torque as a goal with cost as the limiting parameter and then build a matrix of options, all-motor, motor/turbo, motor/supercharger. Factor in trans type (hopefully you get it with the new motor) and go from there.

I left out cosmetics. If that is important to you do that as a separate phase. If you really want to spend the money and you are gonna paint the car. Do that after you pull the old engine but before you put it the new one. Have the engine compartment cleaned up and repainted.

I have a project rolling around in the back of my mind. If I go the route I'm currently thinking of, I will put 20,000 in the car (which I already have). But I want something that looks brand-new/stock and has above average performance....

 

Ok this is what you should do.
D-Series = DOHC ZC (Vtec is overrated)
B-Series = B18 and greater
H-Series = To much $$$$

So I would recomend a ZC motor or a B18. Forget the B16's for the price of the motor and all the fabrication parts its easily cost more then 2.5k. So You could either shell out more money for the B18. Or save some money and Buy a ZC. Hell ZC's are like $700. You could by a kick *** turbo setup and womp on b16's and b18's with bolt ons.

D-Series = Best Series.

Dave

 

Im still unsure if I want to actually dump alot into this car. Im going to keep the body totally stock and maybe put some rims on it but Im thinking of a different kind of factory wheel.

Im not looking to build a car to race, Im just looking for some extra power for my daily driving. Thats why I was considering the B16 because I would actually like to not even do bolt-ons. Just a stock motor, on a stock car. Im leaning more toward the B18 but Im still considering the B16.

Does anyone have any recommendations for places to get motors. I want quality. Thanks in advance.

 

slap a mustang engine in that baby and call it a 10sec car

 

Yea ok...

I looked around a bit and this site hmotorsonline.com seems very good. Ive heard good things as well. Any insight?

 

Ok heres the deal-

I want the car to look stock for now but I do want to address the suspension, brakes, and engine. I have made my decision to save the extra money and buy a b18.

Now for the suspension and brakes. I was reading and I saw people speaking of a rear brake conversion. Is it a disk brake conversion and off of what car? And for the suspension, I dont want to spend too much so Im thinking a basic spring/shock setup would suit my needs. I do however want to maintain a good ride quality so I dont want to drop it far, and the spring rate shouldnt be too high. Suggestions?

 

Anyone??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5litereater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b18=better torque than b16
b18=better gear ratio for turbo
b18=better than b16
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1. Yes
2. NO! Shorter gears are better for turbo, vs the popular myth!
3. No. I've yet to see a B18A/B match my 1/4 mile times with the same mods.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by libila &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok heres the deal-

I want the car to look stock for now but I do want to address the suspension, brakes, and engine. I have made my decision to save the extra money and buy a b18.

Now for the suspension and brakes. I was reading and I saw people speaking of a rear brake conversion. Is it a disk brake conversion and off of what car? And for the suspension, I dont want to spend too much so Im thinking a basic spring/shock setup would suit my needs. I do however want to maintain a good ride quality so I dont want to drop it far, and the spring rate shouldnt be too high. Suggestions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Go find a 90-93 Integra or 90-91 CRX Si and get the rear disc brake assemblies off that. You basically can mix and match parts form it, can't remember for sure. Do a search, been covered many many times. As for shocks, Tokico Illuminas and some eibachs are a good, fairly cheap choice; while Neuspeed springs and Koni Yellows would be pretty much ideal for a car that sees lots of track time and has a high budget.

 

Thanks, Ill look the brake conversion up.

Here is something that Im really looking at. Price to performance ratio on a supercharged b16A vs stock B18C.

The price of the B18C is $3,149.00 for the complete change over. Thats just the base price, not including the new mounts and the hydraulic tranny conversion. This motor is rated at 170hp-121trq.

The price of a b16A is 2,060.00 WITH the hasport mounts, linkage, and A/C bracket. This motor is rated at 160hp-111trq. Now if I add a Jackson Supercharger at the price of $2,600 (rounding up, I can get a better price on it) that puts the total at $4,660, on the high side. The amount of power this will put out is roughly 191hp-138trq.

These are the two combinations I am thinking of at the moment. I would really like to hear some other options as far as motors go, with or without FI. I want to keep the internals stock and I would like to spend as little as possible, but who doesnt right?

 

Don't bother supercharging a B16A. If you're gonna go the FI route, go nitrous or better yet, turbo.

If you're doing a cost comparison, a B16 with a 500 dollar nitrous kit will eat a B18C any day of the week.

 

True abouth the b16 with nitrous but you have to keep into consideration the preporation of the motor for that $500 nitrous kit. That and Im not a fan of the stuff. I want to see if my talon sells then Ill start thinking of making this car a funner daily driver.

 

do a LS (B18 Block) V-tec ( B16 Head)............... nice torque good setup