According to this little book that i have they did some tests on a couple of motors with some small mods. I just going to post them so others can see. The largest gains are throught out he whole dyno test.

First test is removing your power steering pump B16a
STOCK________REMOVED_______LARGEST GAIN
154.0-HP______158.2___________4.2
114.7TQ_______116.2___________3.4

Next is a underdrive pulley vs. stock B16a
STOCK________INSTALLED______LARGEST GAIN
150.2-HP______152.0___________4.4
111.8-TQ______114.8___________3.1

Next is a 20w-50 oil vs. red line race oil D16z
STOCK________INSTALLED______LARGEST GAIN
113.0-HP_______117.3__________4.5
101.0-TQ_______103.0__________3.0

Next test is turning on your ac and lights vs. off D15b
STOCK off_____ON___________LARGEST GAIN
100.8-HP______99.2__________2.3


Hope this helps some people

 

cool

 

Were these tests dyno on an engine or chasis dyno? I'm assuming engine with claims like that.

 

they were all whell hp

 

I've got the same book. I found it to be very useful for some things, questionable in others. This was one of those questionable sections.

According to the preface, he did several runs with each setup and averaged the results. However, the graphs he shows do not always match the numbers he gives, especially in close comparisons like these. Furthermore, these "Largest Gain" numbers can be taken from anywhere in the rev range... wherever the difference happens to be greatest. most of the graphs will have a strange blip somewhere in them where he took the "Largest Gain" from.

Not that I'm knocking on your post... but I am knocking on the book. He likes to give the impression that you can do 5 simple things and net 15 horsepower across the board, but his dyno graphs tend to say otherwise.

 

Ignore the oil test, that's pretty biased. Redline oil has a lower viscosity rating than 20W50 which proably has the consistency of peanut butter at low temperatures. They didn't specify which grade they used either. Thicker oils are harder to pump around and cause power losses. I wouldnt be too surprised if 5W30 oil was used instead and showed similiar power gains.

Janos

 

yeah i understand what you mean some of the things are questionable. my just posting what he is saying the configuration on your car will make. i don't know what the differnet mods will make. i just thought the number were intresting if they did work that would be 15 or so hp for like 60- 70 bucks

 

What is the name of this book?

 

The book is HOW TO BUILD HONDA HORSEPOWER.

 

ignore the one about the pulley

yes they can "free" HP , they do not increase HP

and is a bad idea... the lighten crank pulley wears the main bearings big time
theres a reason why they are, the way they are... they are Harmonic Balancers= means they take the vibrations off the motor... and they are actually 2 pieces... take that away and u will blow ur motor eventually....

beleive me,... i have done it and MISTA BONE here wich is also a guru will tell ya that

 

honda makes a ctr n1 pulley that doesnt have the harmonic balancer,

there is a bunch of hersey on the internet that underdrive pulleys will blow you motor and all this jazz i dont buy into it, ive been running my pulley for over 30k and i have yet to have any problems. if i had it to do over again i would of got the n1 pulley from honda, since i dont use ac or ps

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW

 

Where is the harmonic balancer in a stock honda pulley, I have looked very close and can not find it.

 

It doesn't i am looking at an extra one that i have laying around right now

 

I think it depends what motor you get the pulley from. Some are solid metal and others have the center part that bolts to the crank seperate from the outside where the belts wrap around. Those two parts are seperated by rubber that is injected between the two - acts like a harmonic balancer.

 

no balancer on my jdm b16..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jlh81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The book is HOW TO BUILD HONDA HORSEPOWER.</TD></TR></TABLE>

GOOD INFO

 

so is the underdrive pulley good, or bad? cause i'm thinking about getting one! cause i also heard that it will wear out ur main bearings.

 

I had the Unorthodox Racing Ultra R crank pulley (only drives alt) and the Ultra A alt pulley. Just to let you guys know you DO GAIN HP AT THE WHEELS since some people like to think you don't. It's not exactly like a flywheel.

While it does lighten up the pulley assembly considerably (stock crank pulley and alt pulley = 8lb 6oz. UR crank pulley and alt pulley = 11oz!!!!!) it also underdrives and in my case eliminates the p/s so this is where the HP increase comes from. (Dyno proven).

On another note I ran it for over 40,000 miles before my car was stolen. Beat the **** out of it, 3 track events and a couple auto-x. NEVER one bit of problem.

I swear by them. The whole Harmonic balenceing thing is for V8's and cars that rev to 10 grand.

D-Series motors may be differn't in Mista Bone's case. My car in question was a 99 Si with a stock bottom end B16A2.

 

I don't agree with mr. Milano at all.

I have read countless articles and first hand experiences about how the harmonic balancing on Honda's is a very important thing. Especially if you are revving high.

For anyone in the market for an Underdrive pulley just do some research on Honda-Tech and you will find plenty of data that should give you enough reason NOT to buy one. It might be a cheap way to gain some ponies but in the long run you are killing your motor. Mr. Milano might have "abused" his motor for 40K with great success but it might have only lasted 50k. Since the car is gone we can't do a tear down and show the world how "beaten" his crank and thrust bearings are.

Puting an Underdrive pulley on your motor is essentially "beating" it. If you're that HARD-UP for extra ponies then just work some extra hours and work and buy some camshafts or a thinner headgasket and do some dyno tuning.

BTW: as far as problems go when your "beating the **** out of it"... they don't come gradually or small. Hardcore engine problems like bad crank bearings and thrust bearings can lead to immediate engine failure. LIke I said, he may have made it 40k but he may not have made it 45K.

 

i have used ur crank pulleys on all my cars from 94 toyota supratt to 88 crx/b16 and if they are good quality,balanced and installed corectly you should be ok..there are some kinds of cars that have balancers(i think mitsubishi) and thats where all the balancer talk came from...

 

:sigh:

I wish I would have saved the pics during a tear down, inspection and freshening up.

Just as you can search and find "countless" amounts of threads that argue against it, their are plenty "respected" members that will argue otherwise.

I guess it's just another one of those fabled mythical urban legends that will never truly be resolved....

All I can say is to each his own. You all know my perspective. Take it with a grain...

 

My conclusion:

Harmonic balancer is not needed.
-proof: there isn't one from the factory, it is just a solid piece of steel

Underdrive pullies do not add horsepower.
-proof1: They only free up HP by reducing parasitic drag from the power steering (if aplicable)
-proof2: An alternator makes only as much power as is needed, thereby drawing only as much as is needed.
-proof3: It is THE SAME as lightning the flywheel.

Underdrive pullies CAN kill engines, when not installed properly.
-proof: out of balance crank = damage, an unbalanced assembly will cause damage

I'm betting that the people who lost motors had out of balance pullies and were running high RPM.

My final word:
Underdrive pullies are a good way to decrease rotating mass, but if you install one, have it balanced!

-Dustin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jlh81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Next is a 20w-50 oil vs. red line race oil D16z
STOCK________INSTALLED______LARGEST GAIN
113.0-HP_______117.3__________4.5
101.0-TQ_______103.0__________3.0
</TD></TR></TABLE>

im sorry but i think that is ******* stupid...

maybe if the guy tested it with normal 5w30 that honda's use that would be more of a test...and would need to be new oil vs new oil...20w50 is too thick...

 

he's just trying to help

 

it wasnt towards jlh81...it was towards the person who spent the time to dyno it...