I wanna stay all motor but I dont know what to get next. Everything costs so damn much and I dont know what to do and whats worth it. If I start with the head, thats valvetrain + cams + gears + gasket $$$, If I start with the block, its pistons, new bearings, small tuning like fuel pump, water pump, rod bolts, $$$ If I get new engine management, its hondata, ecu, harness, and program(dont know if I want s100 or s200) $$$ The point is, it all costs money and I dont know which route to take and do next.

I got a 99 si with stock motor and i/h/cat/e, b&m fpr, ngk plugs/wires, stage 1 clutch(stock flywheel), sittin on koni yellows/eiback sportlines, spoon bars, skunk2 short shifter.(never realized how much I had on this car until now)

Anyone help me decide on whats the next mod bang for buck

-new throttle body?(itr is biggest Ill go)
-LSD?
-flywheel?(dont want until my clutch wears out)
-build internals top-down? or bottom up?

Or should I say **** the b16 and save for an R swap?

I feel that the 1.6 vs 1.8 is a huge difference cuz when my friend got his 98 gsr, we were trailing side by side at same rpm and punched it at same time to see what has more power. I had i/h/e at the time and his stock **** just pulled away after 4th gear. Our driving level is pretty much the same where it all boils down to who gets the better launch or start. I hope Im making sense(its late)

If it sounds like im bitchin and whining, im sorry. I know this sport takes alot of time and patience and money. -- money being the big hitter. Its gonna take months and months, years if that to get my car where I want it to be.

I know I sound like a newbie because I am, but I'm fascinated by how an engine works and thats why I'm here. Im here to learn. Im here to learn the math and physics of a car and want to be able to do all the work myself

If anyone thinks this thread is pointless, go ahead and lock it, moderators delete it. But I come here because its Honda-tech, period. I learned alot from this site and made me more confident in diy tasks.

Thanks for taking the time to read the post.

 

call a good shop and ask them

first think of all your goals

how fast you want to be?

how much real money you have to waiste on the project?

there is no best way, just a matter of finding hte least amount of compromise

 

get a b20 and build it then swap your b16 head on there. thats the cheapest bang for the buck or look into the LS rods and crank in your b16 setup

 

For N/A motors specifically a lightweight flywheel and LSD prove to be a few of the best mods that you can do to any settup.Those and with a finaldrive(4.7 or 4.9)....These make any settup much more fun to drive...Get use to everything being overpriced in this sport.If you have ANY doubts be sure to go out right away and join a "Recovering Import Tuner" group because this stuff is addictive as crack.

 

Well for a one-time investment that is better than any automotive mod, spend the $3000 on a 1999 Yamaha R6. It will spank any import in any way, acceleration, maneuverability, lateral G's. It is just as expensive as the R swap and it does a 10.25 in the quarter stock from the factory. And it is all motor too with a rev limit of 15,500 rpm. It has 12.4 compression stock with factory performance support. Tires are about the same price each, but you have half as many. The gearing is easy to set so with sprockets. No $$$ final drives. There is also a stock 6th gear. It is rear wheel drive so you no longer have the understeer issues of the typical FWD. 20 lbs of weight reduction actually does something since the bike is only 420 lbs with a full tank. And with gas prices being what they are you will spend less since you really have to push it all the time to get below 40 MPG. The newer versions have ITB's otherwise it has individual carbs for the special tuning capability and throttle response.

I am probably no help but if you can't afford the sport then sit back and pile on the money while you figure out EXACTLY what it is that you want. That way you can spend all the money at the same time to eliminate multiple visits to the $70/hr shop. I would figure out what I want, then accumulate the parts through non-retail sources to save money and when everything is available I would build and install the engine at once my self (it is amazing what friends will do for beer and pizza). That way you learn more about your car/engine and can fix it and upgrade without the high-priced machanics. Just take your time and find out what it is that you want to do with this sport. And do as much research as you can about your engine. LEARN what mods are suited best to your application. Good luck with your build...

the Pirate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well for a one-time investment that is better than any automotive mod, spend the $3000 on a 1999 Yamaha R6. It will spank any import in any way, acceleration, maneuverability, lateral G's. It is just as expensive as the R swap and it does a 10.25 in the quarter stock from the factory. And it is all motor too with a rev limit of 15,500 rpm. It has 12.4 compression stock with factory performance support. Tires are about the same price each, but you have half as many. The gearing is easy to set so with sprockets. No $$$ final drives. There is also a stock 6th gear. It is rear wheel drive so you no longer have the understeer issues of the typical FWD. 20 lbs of weight reduction actually does something since the bike is only 420 lbs with a full tank. And with gas prices being what they are you will spend less since you really have to push it all the time to get below 40 MPG. The newer versions have ITB's otherwise it has individual carbs for the special tuning capability and throttle response.

I am probably no help but if you can't afford the sport then sit back and pile on the money while you figure out EXACTLY what it is that you want. That way you can spend all the money at the same time to eliminate multiple visits to the $70/hr shop. I would figure out what I want, then accumulate the parts through non-retail sources to save money and when everything is available I would build and install the engine at once my self (it is amazing what friends will do for beer and pizza). That way you learn more about your car/engine and can fix it and upgrade without the high-priced machanics. Just take your time and find out what it is that you want to do with this sport. And do as much research as you can about your engine. LEARN what mods are suited best to your application. Good luck with your build...

the Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually according to the mags a 99 r6 does the 1/4 in 11.0 with pro riders. most r6's (any 600 for that matter) i see @ the local track are mid-high 11's.

 

I was in the same boat as you. I too have a 1999 Civic Si and was wanting to keep my B16 and go N/A but was just so dejected at the prospects and amount of money required to spend to get to my goal of 200whp that I was just like "funk it" and have kept it relatively stock with exception to various bolt-ons and suspension mods. But as shown by the build that Omniman made with a B16, it is possible to make really good power with the "torque-less wonder" without breaking the bank. As someone suggested on here, a good final drive (4.7 for a car that is daily driven or 4.9 if you just really like to shift gears), LSD, and lightweight flywheel are your best mods. To get some good power, build up that top end-P&P, 3-angle valve job, cams, valvesprings, cam gears, etc. Milling the head as well will help bump that CR up without having to get in that bottom end. Just remember no more than .030 off of it and you'll be fine. Get with your head builder to go over the details. You could also look into going with a stroker kit for the bottom end. Crower and Toda make some for our motors, but the best affordable option out their (and the one I am doing) is TECH43's custom rod and piston kit which allows you to run a LS crank in the B16. Pretty cool I say. It's like an LSVTEC without the LS.

Boring the TB out to 64mm is a great option too. I had that done when I put on my Skunk2 intake manifold. Great combo right there. Also invest in a really good header. I mean really good. Not no $100 special at Pep Boys crap. Look into a really good custom header like one from SMS, DTR, etc. They cost alot but you definitely get what you paid for. Here's the infamous header comparison test thread and you can see for yourself the difference that a good header makes.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=699674

As far as engine management, I would run a Hondata s100 if you aren't needing all the bells and whistles and just want basic engine management. You can find awsome deals if you look around. I got my s100 without the boost option for about $190. Seems that no one want it unless it has it on there. I'm going N/A so I could've cared less. I also got Hondata's trick P28 that has the OBD2 connector on it so no harnesses are required. I got that for under three bills. Not bad I say-a complete EMS for under $500.00.

After that, its all about finding a shop that can do the mods or learning how to do it yourself. Granted, somethings are best left in the hands of pros if you have no clue what you are doing, but I say if you can read directions and a pretty mechanically inclined, get you a Helms manual, some good tools, some friends who can turn some wrenches and dive in. Someone told me that and it has been the best investment because that is where you really save the money is on the labor.

These are the nuggets of knowledge and experiences I picked up while modifing my Si. Hopefully this helped you out and you can finally decide where to go next-or at least make a more informed decision. Good luck with the build.


EDIT: TECH43 makes a custom piston kit to allow the fitment of an LS crank and rods in the B16. It doesn't offer custom rods (although I think they do offer Eagle specialty rods with the new bushings installed for an upcharge). Sorry for the mistake.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually according to the mags a 99 r6 does the 1/4 in 11.0 with pro riders. most r6's (any 600 for that matter) i see @ the local track are mid-high 11's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sportrider.com:

Year..................Mag issue....1/4 time
yamaha
YZF-R6 ('99).. 6/99, 12/99 10.68 @ 128.17
YZF-R6 ('00).. 10/00,12/00 10.99 @ 125.24
YZF-R6 ('01).. 6/01, 12/01 10.80 @ 128.04
YZF-R6 ('03).. 6/03, 12/03 10.80 @ 127.8
kawasaki
ZX-6R ('99)..... 06/99 10.70 @ 126.13
ZX-6R ('00)..... 10/00 11.07 @ 123.30
ZX-6R ('01)..... 06/02 10.93 @ 124.81
ZX-6R ('03)..... 06/03 10.67 @ 131.0
honda
CBR600F4 ('99) 6/99, 10.88 @ 125.57
CBR600F4 ('00) 10/00 11.00 @ 124.65
CBR600F4i ('01) 6/01 10.75 @ 127.09
CBR600RR ('03) 6/03 10.73 @ 129.7
suzuki
GSX-R600 ('99) 6/99 11.15 @ 123.20
GSX-R600 ('00) 10/00 11.13 @ 122.79
GSX-R600 ('01) 2/01, 10.80 @ 125.40
GSX-R600 ('03) 6/03 10.80 @ 127.8


Still PDQ if you ask me...

the Pirate

If anybody wants me to remove my posts b/c they're off topic PM me and I will...

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

Ask for getting a bike.. that's until later.. when Im done(if ever) with the si.

I have a good idea of what I want to put in the b16, its just the $$ is lackin

rite now im just tryin to save up cash for a vacation and its slowin the build process down

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shorty C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when Im done(if ever) with the si.</TD></TR></TABLE>

car projects are rarely finished, but you will probably find a point at which you are pretty satisfied and can slow down a little. I just got my b16 for my CRX and I'm having a tough time deciding what direction to head in, I wanted to go LS/vtec, then I wanted to stick w/ the B16 and lately I've been wanting to build the B16 head while building a GSR or ITR block seperately and then combine them in the future. Just some ideas but either way, have fun doing it and good luck.

 

I was recenlt (yesterday) in this same situation. I bent another valve, and need to get it repaired. I figured I'd look at E39 5 series Beemers, and found a really nice one. Beautiful car, but some stuff goes against it:

**** slow
Making payments
higher gas bills
Parts costs.


I decided to fix my hybrid. No matter how down you get on your car, the more you do to it, the better it (usually) gets.

 

I was in the same situation not so long ago.

Like other said, set yourself a goal, you will be happy when you accomplish it.
On the other hand, you will always want to be faster

 

OEM yo...............its proven to last, piston rings will hold up, sleeves won't drop, you get good midrange power (that is used on the street).

Now, OEM won't make the power say if you spend $$$ to have over the 200HP mark, but it won't last long either.

Buying a bike is fast and cool to have, just don't race a nicely build Supra or your get laugh at.

 

just had a thought while reading around

Would it be a good move to switch out short blocks as the next mod? worth it? either gs-r or type-r block?(dont want LS or b20)

or just take advantage of the b16's ability to rev

I know most votes suggest build b16 top down,

told u im at a maze.


Modified by Shorty C at 11:56 AM 4/30/2004

 

1.8 &gt; 1.6 IMHO.

 

sell it and get a mustang! girls loveeeeeeee mustangs and you'll get *** all the time.


just drive it and have fun... **** being the fastest and the coolest.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shorty C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just had a thought while reading around

Would it be a good move to switch out short blocks as the next mod? worth it? either gs-r or type-r block?(dont want LS or b20)

or just take advantage of the b16's ability to rev

I know most votes suggest build b16 top down,

told u im at a maze.


Modified by Shorty C at 11:56 AM 4/30/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>


Well, if you decided to go with a B16 swap, having a shorter FD (i.e. 4.7 or 4.9) will surprise you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BERT-O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OEM yo...............its proven to last,</TD></TR></TABLE>

i second this... parts are ALOT cheaper and if installed correctly are much less likley to **** up. im not sure which parts you could use, but there are tons of people on here with all OEM setups making good, RELIABLE power that could point you in the right direction. i vote for OEM.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
just drive it and have fun... **** being the fastest and the coolest.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

true.

 

skunk2 valvetrain and pr3 stock rods can handle up to 9500rpm right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sell it and get a mustang! girls loveeeeeeee mustangs and you'll get *** all the time.


just drive it and have fun... **** being the fastest and the coolest.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are u on hondat Tech just jok'n

 

BIkes are overratted, most turbo civic's that runs 12's spinning at the track can walk a bike. Bike have crazy 60fts and that is why they have sick 1/4 time and sick trap speeds by not sitting there spinning. only ride a bike on the track because now-of days it's just not worth getting on a bike when the VW jetta with a female driver is on her 2nd hour of a juicy conversation doesn't see or hear you coming just simply switches lanes without signalling because her left hand is holding the phone. Think about that.

Back to the topic you have one of the nices honda's built. Your goal was never listed, so we assume you want to be faster, but we don't know what. Is it AutoX, Draggin etc...? I liked what someone else suggested, just keep researching and saving until you are dead set on it. That is the best I can do until you let us know what you want your car to accomplish.

 

goals:

around 180-200 whp - i know 200whp for a b16 takes $$$ but ill just be satisfied with a strong set up that can take me to 9500rpm with no worries. I dont wanna run insanely high CR numbers cuz i dont wanna spend 6-7$ a gallon on race gas.

I just want a strong daily driven motor that I can take to the track every once in a while

like i asked earlier: can a skunk2 valvetrain and stock pr3 rods hold up to 9500rpm?

 

Somwhere I read that B16 bottom end is ready for 10000, skunk2 valvtrain should be good for 9500.

I hope your motor will make power in that kinda RPM.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tommy69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hope your motor will make power in that kinda RPM.</TD></TR></TABLE>


It will if he goes FI.