Titanium is undoubtedly a softer metal than steel. We all know Ti retainers are a wear item and some feel that because of this, they are not well suited for street use and are considered "overkill" for most setups. This is obviously subjective of the setup and opinion of the builder.

However, I find myself a little confused when reading and hearing about failures with Ti/Al retainers (due to premature wearing etc). Then there is the common conception that stock retainers are no good and are not suited for any speeds above 9000rpm, however, they are hands down more reliable in the sense of wear.

I read in a thread somewhere about how the Ti retainers can reduce seat pressures and add about 100-200rpm more speed before float due to the decrease in weight. If an engine is built and its powerband is designed and tweaked to be below 9000rpm, for a street engine, does it even really make sense to use Titanium retainers if you have enough spring pressure? I've had or read several reputable people saying stock retainers are just fine even a little past 9000rpm with enough valve spring when used with Stage 2 cams. I am just creating this thread for more opinions...

In addition, from what I understand and what I can look-up part # wise, all b-series vtec engines other than the b16a auto's come with the same retainer. If retainers are so much of an issue when raising the rev limiter of the engine, what explains Redline of B16A as per Honda - 8000rpm vs. B16B being 8900rpm?

 

your last point is a good one if its true. but i have no idea towards your answer

 

Ti retainers when made right and installed right dont wear that quickly.... not really an issue imo, most people i know dont keep engines together long enough for it to matter anyway

as for the ctr reving to 8900, thats only b/c it makes power that high, nuthing to do with anything else. normal b16's dont make power that high, so why rev it that high.

 

Along this topic of retainers, what good are the Ti/Al ones over stock when someone is boosted?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Along this topic of retainers, what good are the Ti/Al ones over stock when someone is boosted?</TD></TR></TABLE>

none as long as you arent reving the thing to hell and back.

 

one of the points that your post lacks is that nothing is wrong with using the heavy stock steel retainers over 9k rpm ... provided enough seat pressure. The main cause of stock retainer cracking and breakdown is due to the infamous "bouncing off the rev limiter" that many like to do due to the sound coeeficient
If i had a dime for all the people that brought me heads whose retianers needed changing or whose motors blew up, I asked if they did that and answers were always embarrisingly denied.

as for Ti retianers, I've used the portflows and endyn ones for many and many miles and then taken apart and all are fine with no signs of fatigue (simple valvetrain transfers for use of gsr head vs b16a or vice versa - not because somethign went wrong) ...

and thats my $0.02
greg

 

cheetah..... also keep in mind that excess spring pressure cause more wear on everything as well as more friction..

not alot, but it is there.

also.. i have never had any experience running stock retainers above 9000 rpms. almost all the cars i deal with have aftermarket springs/retainers in em before i ever get to them

 

Another argument that the guys from "REV" stated was thats cetrain spring retainer combos (ti) arent a tight fit, and the retainer can spin on the end of the spring, and this wears the retainers.

Some companies, like rev have spring and retainer kits that are a snap fit, and wont spin. This is defense against retainer wear. If its 100 percent true or not is another story, but i can say that a guy here had the rev springs and retainers and were checked after 15,000 miles and there was no wear to the titanium retainers. So either the ti wearing is a myth, or some wear and some dont.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as for the ctr reving to 8900, thats only b/c it makes power that high, nuthing to do with anything else. normal b16's dont make power that high, so why rev it that high.</TD></TR></TABLE>

?? We are talking about the capability of the retainer at the RPM, not about engines making power....

Cheetah, you feel that it is ok as long as their is enough seat pressure to bring it up to 9k maybe even 9200? SGT, IB, and others on HT seem to feel the same way.

 

Stock B16/GSR retainers are pressed from powdered metal (PM). When subjected to a certain amount of shock from valve float and such they will break in half or shatter.

True Ti can wear. There are higher grades of Ti that are more wear resistant and given that they have a snap fit on to the springs you'll enjoy the extra safety provided by properly made Ti retainers.

 

In otherwords, if no valve float occurs, the stock retainer has no problem up to those RPMs.

 

yes jdogg, I've used the stock ITR intake springs with portflow inners and stock gsr/b16a retianers to 9600 rpm with cams as big as Toda spec B and never a problem... no sign of float or cracking on retainers.

Spring pressure plays a big role with the stock retianers and high RPMs. I would say if given a choice, use Titaniums although not necessary that you use them.

Greg

 

So all this time, I thought TI retainers were all the same.............sheesh.

I think OEM is the way to go, its OEM proven over 100,000 miles.


.................................................. ..........waiting for the crowd to cheer!

-Bert

 

People make it sound like Titanium Retainers wear super quick. It's to the point where people say it's not even worth it. C'mon now.

A friend of mine had Skunk2 Ti-Retainers for over 40,000 miles along with his Skunk2 valvesprings. He took them out to check it, and I tell you the truth... there was almost NO wear on them. They looked perfectly fine, and this was after MANY hard runs to 9000rpms. Sure they gall over time because they're a softer metal, but it's not to the point where it will be a huge threat. Besides, you won't have to worry about it cracking.

I've heard many horror stories of Stock Retainers cracking and ****** up the motor. If you're keeping your stock redline, then OEM is perfectly fine. If you rev to 9000rpm+, I say spend the extra $200 and get Ti-Retainers just in case.

 

Does anyone know of places that coat Ti retainers? I've heard this can help prevent galling.

 

http://www.brycoat.com, that's where I got mine coated...only bad thing is that there is a minimum buy in of $100 so if you can get a friend to do it too, it would be perfect.

 

Another lttle tidbit of information about titanium retainers-newer generations of many titanium retainers are machined to give better retainer to valve guide seal clearance. So you can run those big lift all motor cams.