Who here has had there Type-S modified with the Toda Engine Upgrade kit (cams, valve springs, ECU upgrade) or the Toda Piston Kit (Pistons, Piston Rings, etc.)... I am thinking about getting these, but is it (both are about 3500) worth it? How much would a turbo be? And does this NA set up have good drive ability?

 

turbo will always give you better gains.

several of members @ clubrsx.com have it and they love the gains.

 

hytech has a NA kit out that puts down about 300whp. but its crazy expensive

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sane 007 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hytech has a NA kit out that puts down about 300whp. but its crazy expensive</TD></TR></TABLE>

is it out already?

 

Hytechs kit cost around 8k, so if you got the cash go for it.,

 

atlat you sissy, just go jdm like your brother and put in the type r cams, springs, and retainers... o'h and buy them from me because i have access to a set.

 

hmmm maybe... sounds like a a plan

 

My boy just ordered a cybernation stage 1 turbo. It claims 275whp and 12.5@109 in the 1/4. Its around 4K. That alot better than spending 8K

 

no, it isn't. turbo gets easy loss in traction with all the power at a specific point, but with N/A it's gradual and won't cause the tires to spin as much as a forced induction car would.

What I'm trying to get at is that N/A gets more respect for their gains than forced induction does. There is a reason why it is 8000. And 300 whp from an N/A kit on a 4 banger is pretty nice

 

I doubt many people will be running the Hytech kit (is it even for sale yet?) and from what I've seen on some local cars, the CN kits end up costing more than 4K to get a reliable setup...

the Toda kit isn't in the same league but it's a very nice affordable upgrade for a daily driver -- improves both driveability and reliability, capable of deep 13's with a few boltons and good tires, and can stay emissions-legal to boot. Revs to 9K without worries of leaning out or bending valves, and I still get 25 mpg even with heavy use of the lower VTEC point

 

its really drivable? isnt when you upgrade many of the engine internals, the driveability goes down the tube? and is it true that when you get the engine upgrade kit (the pistons and such), it raises the compression to 12.9:1? And if it is true, isn't that too high for normal street gas.

 

I dunno about the Toda pistons as they are not part of the basic "engine kit" and I haven't yet heard of anyone running them. and you're right at 12.5 - 12.9 cr they're mostly a race-only application. Toda will probably tell you that the engine kit is only compatible to 11.9 cr; above that you'd need the K-Pro to retune, and probably race gas.

The engine kit by itself has no driveability negatives from what I can tell; it feels like Hondata x 2. the lift on the cams is not too aggressive to where it makes the car harder to drive. idles and sounds like stock. throttle response is excellent (I can tell it's better than Hondata-4+CAI was). low and mid-range torque is very nicely improved, without making the low gears difficult like a turbo. taking off from a stop (both regularly and launching) is better because the odd timing dip that the stock ECU had is gone, thus no bog as the fuel comes on and it seems easier to feather the clutch (quite compatible with the stock clutch btw). get on the gas and it jumps into vtec at 3900 right where it feels like it should (I remember waiting for 5800 seemed liked forever!). both vtec points are very smooth transitions, no dip.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsxmachine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Toda will probably tell you that the engine kit is only compatible to 11.9 cr; above that you'd need the K-Pro to retune, and probably race gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

12-13:1 Compression isn't really a problem with Street Gas, you just need 91-93 octane, I have plenty of guys out there with varying setups in that compression range running just fine on pump gas as well as my own engine. If your going all out with the Hondata Pro and the Toda Internals I'd suggest going with a beefier cam like the Spec B or C.

 

13:1 compression on 91? ... I think your engine with detonate to hell. But I do have a list of various gas stations that carry 100 (and 100+) octane gas

 

yeah well here in Reno would be hell to buy that. No gas station carries it, you'd have to get it specially from places.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Atlas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who here has had there Type-S modified with the Toda Engine Upgrade kit (cams, valve springs, ECU upgrade) or the Toda Piston Kit (Pistons, Piston Rings, etc.)... I am thinking about getting these, but is it (both are about 3500) worth it? How much would a turbo be? And does this NA set up have good drive ability?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Toda is the best thing you can get so far....i'm getting TODA and K-pro...i just can't

wait.....

 

You could run any amount of compression you really wanted, you just have to tune it properly to run on street gas.

 

the c5 had 11.1:1 cr. and that has to run on 91-93. so im guessing that if you ran 12.1:1 then youd have to run about 95-97 octane...and that had to be alotta money. if it was me and i was building a daily driver with the n/a set up, then id get itr/ctr pistons, whichever is the highest compression...and that way you could run on pump gas. i wouldnt run anything over 11.5:1 cr on pump gas...bu thats just me...

 

if you got the money, i'd go with NA, but depends on what you are building your car for? drag or road race?

 

I suggest a stroker kit.

 

i'd say a little bit of both. canyon carving, touge, and tarmac are way fun, but i also love to street race.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pints99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could run any amount of compression you really wanted, you just have to tune it properly to run on street gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nohondayet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the c5 had 11.1:1 cr. and that has to run on 91-93. so im guessing that if you ran 12.1:1 then youd have to run about 95-97 octane...and that had to be alotta money. if it was me and i was building a daily driver with the n/a set up, then id get itr/ctr pistons, whichever is the highest compression...and that way you could run on pump gas. i wouldnt run anything over 11.5:1 cr on pump gas...bu thats just me...</TD></TR></TABLE>

B18C5 has 10.6:1 the JDM B18C had 11.1:1

Just because you bump up the compression doesn't mean you have to jump up in octane used, Its all about tuning, you just take out a little bit of ignition timing with the added compression. And yes you can run up to 13:1 (More if you truly wanted too but at a point it becomes pointless) It's all about the tuning. Anyone saying you can't doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

B18C5 has 10.6:1 the JDM B18C had 11.1:1

Just because you bump up the compression doesn't mean you have to jump up in octane used, Its all about tuning, you just take out a little bit of ignition timing with the added compression. And yes you can run up to 13:1 (More if you truly wanted too but at a point it becomes pointless) It's all about the tuning. Anyone saying you can't doesn't know what they're talking about.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Totally agree with Mike. Premium fuel (91-93 octane I like Ultra 94) is a must, but a good reputable tuner should not have a problem with higher compression like mentioned. Keep the ping/detonation out like Mike M said is key..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00MRSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I like Ultra 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

Me too, but it seems the Sunoco stations in MA have changed it to "Ultra 93" probably due to gas prices.

BTW I have a local guy who is running about 12.5:1 on a B18C5 and his car was only tuned with a VAFC and it runs perfectly fine on pump gas.