hey,
I finished my mpfi swap yesterday, and started up the car for the first time since it was dpfi. It started alright, took a little while to actually fire up.. it was just cranking over for a bit then finally started, I dont know if this maybe has something to do with the mpfi swap, since it never did it before.

So the car started and idles fine, but when you give it gas, it hesitates, then finally builds rpm's until about 3,000RPM, at which time it boggs out again. I noticed that I'm flashing a code 4 - crank angle sensor. I searched code 4 and a few people have replied saying to check your wiring, although noone ever said what wires are supposed to be checked for the crank angle sensor. Would I be checking the wires coming from C1 and C2? cause I've checked that, and theres continuity from the pins at the ecu, right up to the dizzy, so that wiring should be fine. And also, A3 and A7(for the injectors) are all wires up fine too, I soldered all connections so it should all be good.

The only thing I noticed could be a problem were that the two pins that I had to add to B10 and B12 dont exactly "click" into the ecu harness. I push them in as far as I can, although if I give them a little pull, they'll still come out, is there any way to push these in all the way so they click and dont just pull out anymore? anyone have any tricks for doing it?
thanks a lot, and sorry for such a long post

 

could be a bad sensor get a helms and test it, i found this thread hope it helps.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=803275

Do you need to change the ecu with that swap ive never done just a MPFI swap only b-series, if so you might want to flip the wires on the crank sensor i had to flip the blue yellow and blue white wires when I did my b16 swap on my STD.

 

So u have checked for continuity for C1 and C2 wires. But have u checked to see if u dont have the C1 and C2 wires mixed up?

 

yeah, you do need to change the computer...
The DX one is a PM5(which is for the DPFI)
and the Si one is a PM6(which is for MPFI)

since there is 4 injectors now instead of two, you also need 4 injector signals.. meaning you need a computer that can do that.

Even though I'm 99.999% sure I hooked up the right wires to the right place, I'll try switching them.. I mean, I cant lose anything from it...

Anyone else have any other ideas I could try?

edit: just tried switching the wires.. didnt make a difference..

 

If it made no difference then I think that means something is wrong perhaps, its not getting to the ecu. If they were correct then you switched, it shouldnt of worked. I think.

When i did my swap, I got the crank angle sensor code once, reset the ecu and tried it again and everything has been fine ever since. It was just that time when I started it, it just started weird I guess you can say.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ijjz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it made no difference then I think that means something is wrong perhaps, its not getting to the ecu. If they were correct then you switched, it shouldnt of worked. I think.

When i did my swap, I got the crank angle sensor code once, reset the ecu and tried it again and everything has been fine ever since. It was just that time when I started it, it just started weird I guess you can say.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey again.. haha..
I was thinking the same thing.. I thought that it should have made some sort of a difference when I switched it... I still think that the pins I put into the harness for B10 and B12 aren't pushed in enough/making a very good connection, although I have no idea how to fix it, I've pushed them in as far as I could, but they didnt "click" or anything, are they supposed to be really hard to get in or something? cause I've been having a lot of trouble trying to get these 2 pink to go in correctly...

Does this basically rule out the distributor then? since it doesnt change when I switch the two wires around? or is it still possible that my crank angle sensor is actually dead?

 

C1-DPFI
Orange-Crank Angle Sensor
-------------wire to-------------
B10-MPFI
Orange-Crank Angle Sensor
======================
C2-DPFI
White 4-Crank Angle Sensor
-------------wire to-------------
B12-MPFI
White-Crank Angle Sensor

But did you run wires from the CYP (Cylinder Position Sensor) back to C-1 and C-2?
C1-MPFI=Blue/Green-Cylinder Position Sensor
C2-MPFI=Blue/Yellow-Cylinder Position Sensor

also on my b16 distributer there are two white wires... are there two on yours? you might have relocated the wrong one. If all seems to be well test the distributer sensors according to the helms manual, you might have to replace the whole distributer

P.S. try hot glue for the pins

 

alright, heres basically what I did for the wiring
- cut the orange wire at C1, on the wire side, I soldered on an ecu pin, then plugged it into the B10 spot, which was empty.
- cut the white wire at C2, and on the wire side, soldered on an ecu pin, and plugged it into the B12 spot.

Then,
- on the ECU side of C1, I ran a wire into the engine bay, and soldered it onto the blue/green wire.
- on the ECU side of C2, I ran a wire into the engine bay, and soldered it onto the blue/yellow wire

For the injectors, I just ran a wire from A3, and from A7, and wired them to 2 of the injectors, and got the wires from the dpfi injectors and wired them to the other 2 injectors. Although all my injectors are working fine, so I dont have a problem with them.

and about the white wires, yes, there was teo of them, I dont really wanna have to but and resolder them again, although I guess thats the only way im gonna find out, eh? I heard that if the two white wires got mixed up tho, the car wouldnt even start, and its starting and idleing fine...

 

this might be a stupid question but did you reset the ECU?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninjaMONKEY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this might be a stupid question but did you reset the ECU?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yup.. about 15-20 times maybe, lol... every time i change something, i reset it before I try starting it again, just so I can clear the code from the ECU, but it always comes back after the car's started

I'm gonna go try to run wires directly from the ECU, to the distributor.. see if that makes a difference, I'll let u know how that goes..
also, does the EACV have anything to do with this? I know its a completly seperate code(14), but could it make a difference? cause I noticed while i was plugging that in, it was a fairly tight fit for the plug to reach all the way up there... Should this be fine, or would this make a difference?

 

alright, I went out to check out a few things...
If anyone has a diagram of the MPFI dizzy wires, or if they feel like checking your car, these are the wires I got... This is on the harness side of the plug, the female end, not on the dizzy side of it.


1- blue/green
2 - blue/yellow
3 - white
4 - orange(which has continuity to the B10 wire at the ecu)
5 - white(which has continuity to the B12 wire at the ecu)
6 - orange/blue
7 - white/blue

What I'm thinking is maybe The two whites have to be switched around, although I dont really want to start hacking away at my wires and switching them around unless someone can confirm this.. anyone know if this is right, or do I have to switch the two whites?

 

One of the white wires is for the O2 sensor. Try running a volt meter on it to see which one it is.

With the pins in the ecu, and you popping the long pin out to take the wires out, then when you plug them in, resnapping the bar down?

Another thing, is this dizzy good? Did it come from a working car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ijjz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
With the pins in the ecu, and you popping the long pin out to take the wires out, then when you plug them in, resnapping the bar down?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have no idea what this means, lol... what bar are you talking about?? long pin?? I think this could be why I'm having trouble getting these pins in.. cause I saw no long pin or bar or anything, lol..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ijjz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another thing, is this dizzy good? Did it come from a working car?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats a good question.. I just emailed the guy I got the parts off of.. hopefully he replies sometime tonight or tomorrow... But until he does.. I'll still be trying to figure this stupid car out, lol...

 

looks to me like you've got all your bases covered, but, i have had the same problem in the past with the error and the dizzy. i ended up haveing to get a new one. if you have any hommies around that have an si dizzy 88-91 you might want to try swapping them to make sure yours isn't bad. did you get your dizzy from ebay?

 

another idea, are all four of the injectors firing???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hcivic88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have no idea what this means, lol... what bar are you talking about?? long pin?? I think this could be why I'm having trouble getting these pins in.. cause I saw no long pin or bar or anything, lol..</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you go to depin from the plug. Theres a bar that latches the pins in on the top or bottom side. That is the bar I'm talking about. You need to loosen the top bar if you want to depin or repin a wire from the top row.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ijjz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

When you go to depin from the plug. Theres a bar that latches the pins in on the top or bottom side. That is the bar I'm talking about. You need to loosen the top bar if you want to depin or repin a wire from the top row. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Now that I never knew.. lol...

Anyways, I got it running.. first I cut the two whire wires at the dizzy, and switched them but then the car just wouldnt start at all.. so I had to extend the wires and re-solder them back the way they were again.. I kinda wish I hadn't have cut them, but oh well, I had to try.

So what fixed my problem, using ijjz's explanation, I figured out how to pop out that little bar, the plugs then clicked in, put the bar back on, plugged everything back in, reset ecu.. and it ran
I took it for a little ride, no more bogging, lots of power... my swap is done

Thanks a lot for the help everyone, couldnt have figured it out without h-t.... found out my problem was really a simple fix.. Although I had no idea the ecu harness came apart... If I would have known that in the first place it would have been running sunday, oh well, its done now, and I even learned something new
If anyone has any DPFI-MPFI questions, Its still fresh in my mind so I may be able to help out


Modified by Hcivic88 at 7:50 AM 4/28/2004

 

Glad to hear it worked out. You should add some notes and tips to your guide on your site if you have any.

I used your guide along with fourthgenhatch's when I did mine.