I was wondering if anyone can tell me the tradeoffs for torque versus hp. The B16A3/2 have more hp then the B18B1 but less torque. How important is this to the performance. From websites the B18B1 goes for less money but would that be mainly because its non-vtec? So then in the end which would be a better swap for a civic?

 

the vtec motor is good. But if you wonna dig inside of your motor you can build a ls/vtec which will have good torque and good as well.

 

Torque is what actually gets yur car moving, the power itself that moves it. Then the Horsepower comes into play. A car with a good amount of torque will be better off the line than one without torque

 

I'm sorry but I'm still getting to learn about all these terms. Can you explain what an lv/vtec is?
thanks

 

i think you mean, ls/vtec
which is matting a non vtec block(the bottom part with the pistons/rods/crank/oil pan) with the head, a vtec.. which is why its called a ls/vtec

 

I get what you're saying cnyej1 about the torque, the thing is is it important enought to trade some hp for more torque, in that case getting the b18b1?

 

do you actauly have money for an engine swap, cuase i don't think your about to swap an engine yourself.. let alone ask your mom, or pay from one

 

And LS/VTEC is a B18B bottom end mated to a B16A, GSR or ITR head. Basically giving you the torque of the LS with some gains uptop.

There has been many threads about this and a quick search will yeild quite a few results that will give you much information.

In my opinion, if your going to go with the hassle with an LS/VTEC then you might as well just start with an GSR.

 

Here's a site that may help explain things a little.
http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wAnA_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was wondering if anyone can tell me the tradeoffs for torque versus hp. The B16A3/2 have more hp then the B18B1 but less torque. How important is this to the performance. From websites the B18B1 goes for less money but would that be mainly because its non-vtec? So then in the end which would be a better swap for a civic? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The tradeoffs for torque versus horsepower, eh? Well, for starters, you'll be much faster in the lower rpms with more torque, and you'll be able to carry acceleration farther with more horsepower. Horsepower is simply a function of torque, so the more torque you add, the more horsepower, theoretically, should appear.

Hondas are easier to get horsepower out of than torque, mainly because the biggest factor limiting the production of torque is volume or displacement of the engine. That said, I'd opt for the B18B (which gives you a lot of torque off the bat) and turbocharge it later if you find it too soft in the top end. You can look through the FI forum and see how successful that venture is.

 

The car with more horsepower should theoretically accelerate faster because even though it might have less torque at the flywheel, it will have more torque at the wheels.

An engine produces two things that we want...torque and rpm, and they are equally important because you can trade one for the other by using a transmission. The combination of torque and rpm is power, and the more power you have the more torque you have at the wheels even though not necessarily at the flywheel (unless you are in the wrong gear or someone dropped the ball when designing your transmission)

Ultimately, all else equal the car that produces more power will outaccelerate the car that produces more torque. Maybe not within a specific rev range, and maybe not within a specific distance, but overall this is true.

 

I CANT BELIEVE NOBODY KNOWS THE EQUATION!!

<FONT SIZE="5"><U>TorqueXRPM</U>
5252 =Horsepower</FONT>

 

Read here:
http://www.theoldone.com/archi...p.htm

Then read the rest of these:
http://www.theoldone.com/archive/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I CANT BELIEVE NOBODY KNOWS THE EQUATION!!

<FONT SIZE="5"><U>TorqueXRPM</U>
5252 =Horsepower</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

EXACTLY! Horsepower is merely a function of torque.

 

I always heard the horsepower is how much work an engine can do and torque is how fast it can do it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Six_Inches_Of_fun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always heard the horsepower is how much work an engine can do and torque is how fast it can do it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats backwards....

HP is the speed at which you spin the torque

read the links in my post above

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The car with more horsepower should theoretically accelerate faster because even though it might have less torque at the flywheel, it will have more torque at the wheels.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i simply don't understand this, not saying your wrong but it doesn't make sese. i have never heard of a motor that has "drive train gain". even on the most effecent drive train you still loose TQ, so sense HP is a function of TQ you will loose HP also. i don't know how you can "gain" tq threw the drive train.

 

Torque is what snaps your neck when you gun it!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i simply don't understand this, not saying your wrong but it doesn't make sese. i have never heard of a motor that has "drive train gain". even on the most effecent drive train you still loose TQ, so sense HP is a function of TQ you will loose HP also. i don't know how you can "gain" tq threw the drive train.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's just the way the world works. You will lose some horsepower through a transmission, but not necessarily torque. Imagine you have 100 horsepower. Since horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252, this means that you can very well have 500,000 lb-ft of torque at the wheels if you choose (although at around a maximum of 1 rpm). That's actually the whole point of a transmission, to increase (or decrease) torque.

It works the same way with levers. You might be able to lift only 100 lbs with your arms, but if you use a lever long enough you can lift as much as you want or loosen as big a bolt as there is. I think Archimedes or someone said it that you can theoretically lift the earth with a lever long enough....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wAnA_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was wondering if anyone can tell me the tradeoffs for torque versus hp. The B16A3/2 have more hp then the B18B1 but less torque. How important is this to the performance. From websites the B18B1 goes for less money but would that be mainly because its non-vtec? So then in the end which would be a better swap for a civic? </TD></TR></TABLE> an esy wy to get a good setup for cheap is to buy a complete LS swap, and also buy a B16 hydro tranny. then sell your B18B tranny.

the b16 tranny gearing is short, so it will feel like your car pulls even harder.
the b18B tranny is known as the longest geared (poorest for performance) tranny out there. some guys with turbo like the B18B tranny, so there is some market for them.

 

torque gets you there, hp keeps you there

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's just the way the world works. You will lose some horsepower through a transmission, but not necessarily torque. Imagine you have 100 horsepower. Since horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252, this means that you can very well have 500,000 lb-ft of torque at the wheels if you choose (although at around a maximum of 1 rpm). That's actually the whole point of a transmission, to increase (or decrease) torque.

It works the same way with levers. You might be able to lift only 100 lbs with your arms, but if you use a lever long enough you can lift as much as you want or loosen as big a bolt as there is. I think Archimedes or someone said it that you can theoretically lift the earth with a lever long enough....</TD></TR></TABLE>


ok wow i toatly missed the point of transmission gearing and what not.

 

lol..

There is no way to "gain" power from a manual tranny. ONly thing you can do is cut down on drivetrain loss. Your typical helical gear sets lose say 12-15% power, whereas straight cut gears only lose 4%.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a typical car equipped with a b16 (111 lb-ft of torque) put out well over 1000lb-ft of torque at the wheels in first gear.

 

wtf are you smoking