Just wondering if they could be made without welding anything, has anyone done so ? I don't have access to a tig welder so I was just wondering if it is possible. I have looked at a few setups and it seems like it could be pulled off, if it was pulled off right, do you guys think they will still make some power ?




Modified by 90blackcrx at 8:57 PM 4/22/2004

 

I am confused as to what you are actually asking? Welding what?

 

I thought you had to weld something to the intake manifold runners, just wondering if the project could be done with out welding.

 

judging from your other post about motorcylce throttle's

NO

they dont just "plug and play", if they did they would not cost in the 1000's +++

you would need to find an intake manni that you could cut up, which you would then cut up,

properly size up the throttle bodies, weld them on, make sure that the actual cable operating them works and they all open at the same time, then you would need to stick on your fuel rail and injectors and what not

then you have to tune it, i'm still new to this concept but from what i gather you need standalone if you really want to make them work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just wondering if they could be made with welding anything, </TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe that this is why people are confused. Did you mean without welding anything?

If so then the answer is yes, it has been done before. In fact there was a set on H-T a while back like you are inquiring about.

The only thing is that you wouldn't get a nice of a fit without the welding but never the less it can be done.

 

people have made custom ones out of old motorcycle itb's. But you need to make a custom intake bracket i guess you would call it to mate up to the throttle body's and the head itself. Lots of cnc time and effort will be involved unless some people have the program and are making them already. Big money for them. And tune tune tune, know what your doing, and then tune some more when it comes to itb's. If you arent very expireanced and i dont know if you are or not i would not suggest using them just yet.

 

I ment without, I'm sorry about that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The only thing is that you wouldn't get a nice of a fit without the welding but never the less it can be done. </TD></TR></TABLE>

See thats what I was thinking, I'm gonna try to think of another way but if I did not weld anything do you guys think there still will be a good gain with them ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaydmcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">people have made custom ones out of old motorcycle itb's. But you need to make a custom intake bracket i guess you would call it to mate up to the throttle body's and the head itself. Lots of cnc time and effort will be involved unless some people have the program and are making them already. Big money for them. And tune tune tune, know what your doing, and then tune some more when it comes to itb's. If you arent very expireanced and i dont know if you are or not i would not suggest using them just yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hate to burst your bubble but you are making it WAY more expensive than it needs to be.

CBR ITB's off e-bay for $150.00.

Old B16 plenum to cut the flange off $50.00

Misc. couplings, etc. $50.00

Old fuel rail and/or injectors $50.00

Other $50.00

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
See thats what I was thinking, I'm gonna try to think of another way but if I did not weld anything do you guys think there still will be a good gain with them ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can get a pretty decent fit if you take your time.

Although getting some aluminum piping the right size and having someone weld them on for a better fit shouldn't run you more than $75.00 or so.

 

add about 500 bucks atleast for dyno time, and a stand alone ecu. I dunno i guess im a person who believes in you get what you pay for. Those are just my beliefs.

But I like seeing people get innovative at the same time and making stuff work like your trying to do. I hope things work out for you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaydmcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">add about 500 bucks atleast for dyno time, and a stand alone ecu. I dunno i guess im a person who believes in you get what you pay for. Those are just my beliefs.

But I like seeing people get innovative at the same time and making stuff work like your trying to do. I hope things work out for you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. We made 23 peak horsepower with our GSXR 1000 setup running on a stock P30 ECU. We only needed 3 dyno pulls to dial in the setup (just messing with the butterfly positioning). Our a/f ratio is right about where we want it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaydmcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">add about 500 bucks atleast for dyno time, </TD></TR></TABLE>

Or take it to someone who know's what they are doing and keep the change.

I to believe in "you get what you pay for" but without innovations where would we be..............in the stone age.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaydmcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">add about 500 bucks atleast for dyno time, and a stand alone ecu. I dunno i guess im a person who believes in you get what you pay for. Those are just my beliefs.

But I like seeing people get innovative at the same time and making stuff work like your trying to do. I hope things work out for you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't need a stand a lone computer at all, you will need some type of controller to control the a/f ratio. And 500 for dyno time is stretching it, I know you can bolt this up and work out all the kinks and have them running so you can drive on the street, getting them perfectly tuned will take a dyno. Anyone have any sites explaing what makes itb's better for midrang and high rang, like longer runners and so on.


Modified by 90blackcrx at 6:45 PM 4/23/2004

 

hooo boy, i dont think you know what your getting yourself into

here is just a taste

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=839622

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_9907_efi/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hooo boy, i dont think you know what your getting yourself into

here is just a taste

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=839622 </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's my favorite thread here on Honda-Tech, however it's very simple to put an ITB setup together. On the other hand, getting them to function with correctly tuned resonant frequencies is a different story. Being that you will probably never see LeMans racing, you don't need to focus on the technical details of a state-of-the-art ITB setup. Get the basic principles down and it'll function as well as you need it to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hooo boy, i dont think you know what your getting yourself into

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I take it that you are not very mechanically inclined.

Stop trying to scare people off by making things seems harder than they are.

 

if these things WERE simple, then people wouldnt be debating about them over and over and over and over again would they?

i'm not saying i know anything in debth either! i'm just as clueless as the rest of you.

but the original poster seems to have it in his head that this is on the same level as bolting on an air intake ( not to insult his skills tho, thats just the vibe that i got) while its completly the opposite!!

because otherwise you would see every honda out there running with ITB's instead of DIY PVC pipe intakes, you know?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i'm not saying i know anything in debth either! i'm just as clueless as the rest of you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok so before you start saying things like wooo you don't know what you have ahead of you, do some research.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if these things WERE simple, then people wouldnt be debating about them over and over and over and over again would they?</TD></TR></TABLE>

People will debate about anything.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but the original poster seems to have it in his head that this is on the same level as bolting on an air intake ( not to insult his skills tho, thats just the vibe that i got) while its completly the opposite!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, it actually will bolt on just like a manifold but yes the tuning and fabrication is gonna take some work. I know this is not gonna be as simple as bolting up a manifold, but then again you will never get an increase like this just from a simple manifold.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if these things WERE simple, then people wouldnt be debating about them over and over and over and over again would they?</TD></TR></TABLE>

They ARE simple. Regardless of the truth, people will debate anyway.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm just as clueless as the rest of you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you talking about. I'm not clueless.

 

man such hostility,

alright both of you give me an PM when you have your DIY itb's installed, i'll be happy to apologize for my blantlant statement of the difficulty of the whole thing, cheers

 

Mine have been installed for weeks. In fact I've made four sets so far and all of them are installed and run great...on daily drivers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mine have been installed for weeks. In fact I've made four sets so far and all of them are installed and run great...on daily drivers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where is the :bow-down: emoticon?

 

well looks i've been told

 

Would a V-AFC be sufficient enough to tune the ITB's? Would I need to upgrade my injectors? okay one more question, when determining runner length , it is the length form the back of the valve to the tip of the velocity stack right? Im curious about doing this, it looks like fun!

 

A VAFC is great for getting a few basic things taken care of, however if you're going to pay the price for a VAFC, why not just get Hondata?

We haven't really done any experimentation with different runner lengths, however ours are an inch or two shorter than the homemadeturbo ones and we're showing more gains up top as compared to the large midrange gains they were showing.