This is what got swapped in:
95 Integra trailing arms
95 Integra bb and mc (RS, non ABS)
3030 prop valve from another civic

I was initially very happy that I got everything installed but once I stepped on the brake, it felt really soft and while it was travelling, it made a very weird groaning sound. I'm not sure why it does that. I tried pumping the pedal while the car was off to build up some pressure. The pedal does get a bit stiffer, but I can still make it sink to the floor. Does this mean the MC is bad? (There's more: please continue reading)

I figured maybe it's because I got a shitload of air and I proceeded with bleeding the brakes with two people in the correct order (RR, FL, RL, FR). When I was at the Front Left brake, I noticed brake fluid was dripping to the ground when the pedal was pushed (and it still made that groaning sound). So I looked under the hood to trace the problem and I found out fluid is leaking from the prop valve. It's not that I didn't tighten down the nut enough, because fluid is leaking behind the nut.

Am I totally fucked? Or is there a way to fix this? I really need help cause I can't drive my car without my brakes working properly.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

How can I fix or get this fixed?
This was supposed to be fun, but it feels like hours and hours of work went down the drain

Here's the video of the noise and pedal travel: (Right Click, Save as)
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D


Modified by 3 G's at 1:12 AM 4/22/2004


Modified by 3 G's at 2:35 PM 4/22/2004

 

i belive rear disc brake swaps dont need the prop valve replaced...
cuz i didnt on mine, and it works fine.

in other words, looks like the prop valve is messed since
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not that I didn't tighten down the nut enough, because fluid is leaking behind the nut.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

you might have to replace that section the flare might have gone down and that is what is causing the leak.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by assman_91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i belive rear disc brake swaps dont need the prop valve replaced...
cuz i didnt on mine, and it works fine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhh to do it right you do

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by assman_91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i belive rear disc brake swaps dont need the prop valve replaced...
cuz i didnt on mine, and it works fine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So it works fine even when you brake hard in rain or snow?
I figured since I had a 3030 prop valve, I'd just swap that in there as well to replace my 3040.

Is there anything else wrong with this whole F-ing thing?
Any more indepth answers from more people? This is really bothering me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99blackcivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you might have to replace that section the flare might have gone down and that is what is causing the leak. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, so how or where can I get the flare replaced?

So what could be causing the weird groaning sound? I think it's coming from the BB/MC area....

 

you want a 4040 proportiong vlave, and that MC could be one with the larger flares, which would require you to reflare that line, or get a new MC.


there is still alot of unknow about the interchangability about honda MC, some of them people have no problem useing, yet others get the same MC only from a different year, and it doesn't work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 3 G's &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Alright, so how or where can I get the flare replaced?

So what could be causing the weird groaning sound? I think it's coming from the BB/MC area....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is it when you push the pedel? maybe the rod inside the car going to the MC is f'd up with **** on it, honestly i couldn't tell you without looking at and hearing the car and a test drive. Lemme know.

Also if you don't know how to do brake line work don't try it esspecially if you don't have a flare tool

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you want a 4040 proportiong vlave, and that MC could be one with the larger flares, which would require you to reflare that line, or get a new MC.


there is still alot of unknow about the interchangability about honda MC, some of them people have no problem useing, yet others get the same MC only from a different year, and it doesn't work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, that was going to be another concern of mine. Is there a big difference with a 4040 and 3030? What would be the bad part about using 3030?
I wanted to use the 3030 because I didn't want to have to rebend and reflare any lines, but at this point, I'm almost open to any option.

About my MC though, I don't think it's leaking but where I got the idea that an RS MC bolts right up is in this thread: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=152884

 

what he said ---but u could always get a flaring tool,it really isn't that hard

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99blackcivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is it when you push the pedel? maybe the rod inside the car going to the MC is f'd up with **** on it, honestly i couldn't tell you without looking at and hearing the car and a test drive. Lemme know.

Also if you don't know how to do brake line work don't try it esspecially if you don't have a flare tool</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it happens when I push the pedal......it's not a low groaning or anything, but I'll try to get you a video/sound clip if I can.

Honestly, I've never done any brake line work, but I know I can rent a flare tool. What's required to use one? I'm thinking I might want to take it to a shop or something to get this fixed, but obviously I can't drive with the condition my brakes are in
I am caught between a rock and a hard place...

Okay, I got a video, but I don't know how to host it and my imagehosts won't let me upload it.


Modified by 3 G's at 2:03 AM 4/22/2004

 

Bump for the night........I'll try and get a vid out some how...

 

Imagestation lets u host vids and so does wetodddid

 

I know you said "it isn't that you didn't tighten the nut" because of where the fluid is leaking, but trust me, you've got to tighten it more.

The way those flared brake lines work is that the nut creates a seal by pressing the flared end of the brake line into the proportioning valve. If you do not tighten the nut all the way, there will not be a tight seal, and it will leak, just like you have indicated.

-a

 

I think i know the groaning noise you speak of.. mine make that noise when i open up the bleeder screws when bleeding. I think its a normal sound that happens when fluid is passing out of some opening in the system, i bet if you fix that leak, the groaning will go away. like what was suggested by Achenar, try tightening the flare nut more with a flare nut wrench.. or some vice grips. the 40/40 prop valve bolts right in, just so you know. I think most of the confusion comes about from mc/bb interchangeability, i don't think anyone has any problems with prop valves. good luck man

 

Thanks guys, really appreciate

Here's the vid: (Right click, Save as, please)
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D

It's very faint, but still audible and you'll notice how far my pedal travels

I'm going to see if I can tighten the nut anymore, but at the same time, I'm going to check if there's something wrong with the flare......this kinda sucks cause I was wondering why I went through three bottles of brake fluid and now my garage is all slippery and ****....

Again, Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by assman_91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i belive rear disc brake swaps dont need the prop valve replaced...
cuz i didnt on mine, and it works fine.

in other words, looks like the prop valve is messed since
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So like... When you slam on the brakes really hard do the rear tires lock up because the pressures aren't right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScrapinSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So like... When you slam on the brakes really hard do the rear tires lock up because the pressures aren't right? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing......cause that's what would happen, right?
Well, hope he doesn't get into an accident when it's slippery out or when he needs to slam the brakes.

 

Dude thats definitely an air/fluid leak of some sort your hearing. Also, isnt there any kinda o-ring that should fit in there to help seal it up, like the fuel lines have. I had a similar problem when I changed my fuel filter in the civ, I finally got all pissed off cause it was still leaking fuel, and I just cranked down on the SOB (like moreso than I think I should've), to my amazement it stopped leaking.

 

try to fix that leak first and go from there (and dont forget to bleed the brakes). if the problem persists, you probably have a bad MC... it happened to me when i did the conversion on my civic... but Import Auto Salvage sent me a new one. goodluck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 3 G's &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, that was going to be another concern of mine. Is there a big difference with a 4040 and 3030? What would be the bad part about using 3030?
I wanted to use the 3030 because I didn't want to have to rebend and reflare any lines, but at this point, I'm almost open to any option.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've had a 30/30 from a 91 Civic for a while now, no problems, works fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScrapinSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So like... When you slam on the brakes really hard do the rear tires lock up because the pressures aren't right? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have had to slam on my brakes in my VX, stock prop. valve/MC and Si brakes all around, it stopped just fine thank goodness. I have been wondering now how much of a difference the new prop. valve would make.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carsaregood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think i know the groaning noise you speak of.. mine make that noise when i open up the bleeder screws when bleeding. I think its a normal sound that happens when fluid is passing out of some opening in the system, i bet if you fix that leak, the groaning will go away. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yup it's a normal sound when you're bleeding the brakes, which is basically what you're doing from that leak

Fix the leak and it will go away a (and your pedal will become firm. Since you're leaking fluid like that you're probably getting all kinds of air into the lines to. You'll be bleeding that out for a while after you fix the leak. I would suggest putting yout stock prop valve back in and see if that helps with the leaking. If it does then bleed all the air out of the system and drive it. If you still don't like how the front/rear bias is, get a 4040 prop valve.

Steve

 

damn i feel you because i had my car nondrivable for about 6 months because i couldnt fix the problem i had with the brakes. my brakes use to lock up after 30 mins of driving. i had changed my whole brake set up from civic to integra gsr with adjusted Type R MC/BB. so i changed my prop valve 40/40 with the motor still on the car which was very hard and rebleed it and the car still lock. changed the calipers still lock and then i changed the Type R BB with GSR BB and it finally WORKED after 6 months of not driving my car.

 

but check your prop valve tighten it very good because it is very unsafe to not have it very tight.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by piscorpio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have had to slam on my brakes in my VX, stock prop. valve/MC and Si brakes all around, it stopped just fine thank goodness. I have been wondering now how much of a difference the new prop. valve would make.</TD></TR></TABLE>

same here.. the pedal is low but the car stops on a dime.. if i smash the pedal all 4 tires lock up pretty fast.. i would also like to know the difference.. other than pedal height and feel..