Hey ppl... Im running a gsr motor with a p28 ecu.. for now i still have the gsr manifold but the secondaries aren't opening.. or are always open, im not sure which one..

anyway im thinking of using an rpm activated switch to engage my secondaries.. i need to know how that sensor works.. does it just need 12v? or is 12v always applied until 5800 or so, and then it opens them??

any feedback would be appreciated.. thanks

 

Cant really help on the switch thing but with the P28 your secondaries remain open all the time. The P72 signals them to close from start off till 5800rpm when they open up.

 

if you are already using the p28 i would just get a skunk2 IM and call her done, or just run a p72 which is the correct ecu for secondaries to operate.... idk

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugenracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cant really help on the switch thing but with the P28 your secondaries remain open all the time. The P72 signals them to close from start off till 5800rpm when they open up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats basically what i was trying to figure out.. i wasnt too sure.. now i need to know if its a simple 12v signal that keeps them closed..

StatGSR - i would if i had money to but ill wait till i rebuild.. the rings are going as well.. engine was beat to **** before i got it..

thanks for the replies guys

 

well if you want some correct advice you just disconnect the vac line from the secondaries and they will stay open all the time..there is really no use in puttting a switch..pull the vacc line off.. the secondaries close when you start up the car and they see vaccum. ..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well if you want some correct advice you just disconnect the vac line from the secondaries and they will stay open all the time..there is really no use in puttting a switch..pull the vacc line off.. the secondaries close when you start up the car and they see vaccum. ..</TD></TR></TABLE>

wait a minute.. so the secondaries are always closed? The little arm on the side of the manifold never moves.. i was messing with it before... its always down (i can push up on it and it springs back)

the vac line is on that round thing on top of the manifold and it goes to the black box with the plug.. your saying pull that off and the secondaries should always be open?

someone please clear this up... one bad thing about honda-tech, no one seems to agree on anything..

oh yea and my original plan was to make a circuit that would leave the secondaries closed at low rpm and open them up at 5800.. same thing the ecu would do but the p28 doesnt...

 

yes you just pull that vac line off...turst me i didnt make 400 hp with them closed without the p72 they will stay CLOSED they close when you start the car ...stand infront of the car and have someone start it and watch..

 

I still say they stay OPEN!!!

 

do whatever you want ..your wrong but i really dont care

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do whatever you want ..your wrong but i really dont care</TD></TR></TABLE>

calm down.. im going to play with it tomorrow when i get a chance and see what happens..

anyone have an idea of what voltage the sensor responds to? so i can just manipulate it the same way the ecu does??

or

in what position are they secondaries open.. according to the arm on the side of the manifold??

thanks for all the feedback everyone

 

Here's the facts. When the motor is off the secondaries are open. When the motor is on (idling), there is vacuum, closing the secondaries. If you disconnect the hose, the secondaries are ALWAYS OPEN.

They'll also open in neutral with no load on the motor when you rev it past 5750 RPM.

As far as I know the ECU will cut the 12V signal to open the secondaries.


Modified by 96dc2 at 12:26 PM 4/26/2004

 

he is correct ..The other guy is a dumb ***...

 

thanks a lot for clearing that up...

 

OK yesterday I finally had a chance to mess around with the car. I was watching the IAB and it did not move weither the car was on or off.. It was always in the down position where the spring is extended.. removing the vaccum line made no difference as well..

In this position (spring extended) are the secondaries open or closed?

 

with the spring exteneded and the little arm all the way down...they are open, when it is in the up position they are closed. you would know if they were closed all the time when driving the car hard...it will be a turd up top, wont pull for crap with the secondaries closed. hope that helps a fellow NY guy out

-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XSSIVE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the spring exteneded and the little arm all the way down...they are open, when it is in the up position they are closed. you would know if they were closed all the time when driving the car hard...it will be a turd up top, wont pull for crap with the secondaries closed. hope that helps a fellow NY guy out

-Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks a lot Mike.. thats what I thought since the car didnt seem to have any problems pulling up top.. would I notice a significant difference if the butterfly system was actually working or is it not worth the hassle?? Thanks..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hadehatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey ppl... Im running a gsr motor with a p28 ecu.. for now i still have the gsr manifold but the secondaries aren't opening.. or are always open, im not sure which one..

anyway im thinking of using an rpm activated switch to engage my secondaries.. i need to know how that sensor works.. does it just need 12v? or is 12v always applied until 5800 or so, and then it opens them??

any feedback would be appreciated.. thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

i hope you're not using the stock p28 ecu because the ignition curve, fuel curve and vtec switchover point are different.
i used a stock p28 to run a gsr and ended up blowing my motor, so just a word of advice, please have it reprogrammed.

 

I second the above post...i hope you p28 is chipped for a b series b/c it wont have correct fuel maps or vtec to control it...

as for your question...FIX the secondaries for sure! when i got my car...GS with JDM SIR-G swap, the person who did the swap did a **** job wiring it (he did tons of half *** **** i had to fix...it's all mint now) so i rewired the whole engine and hooked up the secondaries which he had left wide open...anyway, wide open is ok but you loose low down TQ with them open all the time. After i hooked them up i had a bad solenoid so they wouldn't open...that was worse than open all the time, it hits a brick wall at 5K or so and just doesn't pull. Now with them working 100% perfect it's like a new beast lol...pulls down low...nice kick for vtec and an even bigger kick when the secondaires open. so yeah...fix them

-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thegsrman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i hope you're not using the stock p28 ecu because the ignition curve, fuel curve and vtec switchover point are different.
i used a stock p28 to run a gsr and ended up blowing my motor, so just a word of advice, please have it reprogrammed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been using the stock p28 for quite some time now.. I recently installed a Fields VAFC and set the vtec point at 4500 rpms.. I also added bit more fuel for the higher rpm range, from 5k and up since the p28 tends to lean out the mixture at higher rpms.. thats as much as I can do myself without professional tuning..

How did you blow the motor exactly? I have a stock motor and it pulls pretty hard but im sure theres more power there.. when i hit the 7800 rev limiter the car falls on its face.. Ill look into getting the ECU chipped..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hadehatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've been using the stock p28 for quite some time now.. I recently installed a Fields VAFC and set the vtec point at 4500 rpms.. I also added bit more fuel for the higher rpm range, from 5k and up since the p28 tends to lean out the mixture at higher rpms.. thats as much as I can do myself without professional tuning..

How did you blow the motor exactly? I have a stock motor and it pulls pretty hard but im sure theres more power there.. when i hit the 7800 rev limiter the car falls on its face.. Ill look into getting the ECU chipped.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well it seems that the vafc that you're using is helping out. unfortunately, i did'nt have one. i just used the p28 by itself and i guessed i pushed the car a little too hard one night and i sudenly lost power.

when i made it home, i had my friend look at the head and i burnt 2 or 3 valves and melted two spark plug tips. that was a result of no fuel at that high a rpm and i leaned out and detonated. it's funny because my p72 was stolen when someone broke into my gsr and stole my computer (obd1). i did'nt have the money to buy another one, so i went the cheap route and it ended up costing me 2grand.