i have a 95 LS bottom end and a 1999 b16 head using a golden eagle vtec conversion kit. LS stock red line is 6800rpm, and i was wondering what i can rev the new set up to without the piston hitting valves. i was told not to rev over 7k, maybe 7.5k due to the fact that you can't rev it too high with the stock LS pistons. 7k-7.5k is a pretty big gap, i was wondering where exactly i'd be able to rev it to safely without damaging the internals. any help would be greatly appreciated.

also if you can: how much hp would a stock internals lsvtec make, and what are your opinons on a timeslip for the motor in a 95 integra Rs with pretty good driver?
thanks alot, sorry if i sound newb.


Modified by jdmfrontin at 8:33 PM 4/17/2004

 

There are people running stock internals on this board that take their set ups to 8-85kish daily.

It seems the biggest problem with these motors are the rod bolts, that stretch under high rpm's, and for a lil extra $$$ well worth the effort of install.

The hp on stock ls/vtec would have around the same whp as the head thats put on it(140ish) and the same tq as the block it sits on(120ish), maybe a lil higher. hth

 

i was told that the set up would easily make 165-170hp, and was told by a local shop in the bay area, as many others.. and as far as 8-8.5k that seems really high for the stock pistons with those cams. anyone else got any input. (thanks zensoku207)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmfrontin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was told that the set up would easily make 165-170hp, and was told by a local shop in the bay area, as many others.. and as far as 8-8.5k that seems really high for the stock pistons with those cams. anyone else got any input. (thanks zensoku207)</TD></TR></TABLE>

tru, and it may. but with all stock internals, and built by a well respected organization, this is what a bone stock ls/vtec put out for numbers....

http://www.importreview.com/dyno/1.8/uslsvtec6.jpg

Now if modded, these motors have excellent potential. But its the rod bolts that go first in those set ups.

 

let me help u a bit since well had experience with both build and stock set ups w/bolt ons

go to ur stock rev limit until u do some bottom end work

regardless what they say

are they going to fix it if it takes a **** on u????

I have been through it all so I can tell u it is best to be safe then sorry

I mean u can go to 8000 but nothing more and even that is playing with fire with no bottom end work what's so ever

I go to 8200-8500 on a build block
they tell me down here I can go to 9000-9200 rpm witht he set up I got but as I said r they going to pay for it if it doesn't make it home or again the next tiem down the track......

just my two cents

sorry if it ain't something u wanted to hear or read

 

if my set up included a stock bottom end, and something like skunk2 stage 1 cams, or ctr cams, would i be forced to rev even lower? just a thought. trying to figure this out. thanks.

 

The first thing you want to do in ANY ls/vtec set up, is change the rod bolts.

THOSE ARE THE FIRST THINGS THAT GO.

You can do all the mods you want, and try to rev to 9k, but if the bottom end blows, then its rebuild all over again.

 

If its a stock ls bottom end rev it yo the stock ls spec. So many people think that all you have to do is bolt a vtec head on it and you can rev the **** out of it. If you want to rev it the minimum you should do is get the rod bolts upgraded.

 

i am assuming you have a chipped p28. but if not you need to chipp yer ecu in order to rev higher than unchipped ecu's redline

 

should i just go and get some arp rod bolts for an LS?? You think that would be a lot safer? Also i was planning on throwing in some b16a3 pistons into the motor so i wouldnt have to worry about the LS domes interfering with the b16 valves... Any advice is appreciated...

 

Yeah, rod bolts will beef up the bottom end so you can rev it higher safely.

the b16 pistons will give you higher compression, yielding more horsepower. LS pistons are usually use for turbo applications where the comp ratio is lower. But yeah, b16 slugs would also be a good idea.

 

Damn, don't they have FAQ threads up on this yet ??

Look... as mentioned... the stock LS rod bolts are not great for anything much beyond 7200rpm. You going LS/vtec on a stock bottom end... do the rod bolts FIRST thing. (ARP is what I'ved used) The bottom end will rev reliably to 7500rpm on a daily basis with fairly normal bearing wear. Beyond 7500rpm... the bearing wear will increase (decreasing overall bearing life) but if you're willing to trade off a few thousand miles of life (ok, maybe 10's of thousands) for the extra power up there... you decide. (Performance sometimes costs ya.)

The b16 head can of course rev to 8k from the factory. It will also raise your compression, but not much, keeping you well under the 10:1 compression of a stock GSR engine. So you shouldn't expect the stock bottom end LSVT to make 170 at the fly (the dyno above proves that ).

If you plan to make GSR power or better, you need to up that CR to at least 10:1... but at least you are making better power than b4... Your pistons are not necessarily limiting you... it's just the compression... consider a thinner Headgasket for more power.

 

if you put arp bolts in you will have to resize the rod... if you do this you should balance the bottom end.. do it right the first time

 

why would you have to resize the bolt? thats what they make specific app's for.....

 

read the post.. you have to resize the ROD ...stock ls rods do not fit the arp bolts.. once you resize the rod the bottom end should be rebalanced.. it should be balanced with any proper build.

 

what do you have to do to the rod?

 

bump

 

you have to resize the rod so the bolts will fit correctly... it doesnt cost much but it needs to be done.. by resizing the rod for the arp bolts it throws everything slightly off balance... so the bottom end should be balanced whenever building a block and changing the components from stock

 

you do not have to resize the rods ive never heard of this i have an ls/vtec i ordered arp rod bolts from summit and the were direct fit there is no mods to make them fit also if u dont put rod bolts u will be sorry i rev mine to 8500+ on a daily basis 12'000 miles later not one problem i also have pr3 81.25 slugs not to ramble on but there is no such thing as having to resize anything to make them fit

 

yeah i had never heard of having to resize eaither thats why i was asking

 

im not forcing you to believe me .. its your own car if you dont want it done right dont do it .. why dont you just take the rods and bolts to a machine shop and ask them.. you dont necessarily have to balance your engine but its the right way to build an engine..i wouldnt ever build a bottom end without all the components balanced including the clutch ... do what you will