It seems there are four camps, each with merit.
-Cheap FWD (when I say cheap, I mean initial cost of the car - I know racing is a money pit!) Having raced an Integra GSR for a year, I'm tempted to look for another. Huge aftermarket, reliable, and one of the best handling FWD cars ever made.
-Cheap RWD. 1.6L Miata. Light, quick, reliable, but being currently outclassed by MR2T's.
-Upscale RWD turbo. MR2 is ruling the roost right now, but it's hard to find anything for under $12k, and they tend to be abused. High temps in the engine bay = bad hoses, bushings, other rubbery bits. Also the MR layout + turbo may eat a novice's lunch.
-Classic/semi-exotic RWD. Mainly Porsche guys. Honestly, I love the 944s but for a novice driver and mechanic, it may be too much to keep up with.

I guess after all is said and done, I'm leaning toward the Miata. It's practically bulletproof, it's cheap initially, there's ridiculous aftermarket support, and it's HIGHLY competetive in Solo II. Just wondering what you guys with real experience thought. I'm not limiting myself to these options (I've driven good examples of each), either. I've seen guys in 240sx's put up some very impressive times, but mainly on short courses where their torque pays off. I'd also be too tempted to swap an SR20DET! Anyway, enough rambling...

 

Because you are in England, our answers may be different because of racing classes. I would first ask yourself what racing class/organization will you be running with. This is what got me to choose racing my Type R (racing Honda Challenge) as oppossed to my older Miata (Spec Miata).

 

I would get a turn key built race car I can affort to buy and run which is competitive in whatever class(es) I was looking to run in.

 

I'll be back in the US around September, FYI.
I also expect I'll be running mainly SCCA Solo II for a few seasons, as well as driving schools. I'm serious about getting back into the sport. My one season in the GSR hooked me bad.

 

Well your topic header says dedicated "track" car but you do talk about Solo 2 a good bit. Miatas are a blast. Brake really deep, handle well turn good lap times. Stock not a whole lot of grunt down the straight. Reliable. All good things. I considered one myself to go racing spec miata which has grown enormously. I have driven both modified street miatas and spec miatas on road courses. Lots of fun.
I made another choice though. A 88 CRX w/ B18c w/ toda cams and other mods w/ a stripped interior (very light). After driving it on a road course during a session the other weekend I was swayed by both the handling AND the acceleration this combo brings. In Solo 2 I am sure it would put me in a mod class. SCCA club racing motor and quite a few other things would be illegal under the GCR. Honda Challenge, I think it would be legal. For DE work? Totally "legal" and very fast and relatively inexpensive from what I just sold (tt supra). Depends on what you want to do.
Barry H.

 

I would put my vote in for the miata.

Yes, you may be outclassed for now, but the main thing is that you would be getting track time. The goal here is to get better, not blow everyone away. I think the miata would be the most inexpensive route.

 

Miata no doubt. but of course i'm bias

i also had a 240 that was lots of fun, but a bit underpowered (i had mine to about 170hp).

 

I say, get an early 1.8 Miata and play in ST2.

 

92-95 hatches are an alternative to your Integra choice.
A bit lighter, too.
Mine's in my sig. below.
Cheap. Quick on the Autocross.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eee Pee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">92-95 hatches are an alternative to your Integra choice.
A bit lighter, too.
Mine's in my sig. below.
Cheap. Quick on the Autocross.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is your hatch stock? EDIT: Reading is my friend...

My relatively stock GSR did fine for the most part. I consistently posted better laps than almost all of the other novices in my region, most of who were driving Hondas or Neons. I agree with an earlier poster about keeping it stock so I can compete in that class, rather than mess with those guys in modified or even street prepared. At least until I'm ready.

I guess the "track car" title was a bit off, but I think you know what I mean. A car that I would ONLY run at auto-x or if I have access, the occasional track event. I really want something I can grow with, too. I'm a decent driver and have a season of seat time plus a short school, but I know I have a LOT to learn. Never mind that my skills have probably atrophied not having been behind the wheel of anything more than a go-kart in the better part of a year.


Modified by Chairman Kaga at 5:15 PM 4/14/2004

 

My chips are on the Miata. After 6 years behind the wheel of my Honda, I'm kicking myself for not having the foresight to realize that I would want experience in a rear wheel drive car.... not to mention that Miata's are fun, and cool no matter where you go.

 

Sigh. I'd pretty much made up my mind already.
Miata.
I almost bought an '01 as a daily driver last year after I crashed my Integra, but decided to go to grad school instead. As I was test driving this one, I kept thinking about how much fun it would be to auto-x one... The Miata gang always ruled our SCCA region stock class, aside from Corey Pettit's MR2 turbo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chairman Kaga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but decided to go to grad school instead. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, what were you thinking?!
I moved off campus just to have an excuse to buy a car!

 

2000 Acura Integra Type R

9500 orginial miles

All panels still have vin#'s

Black, 3 sets Kosei K1 15", 3 sets of sticker GAC Hoosiers, ATL Fuel cell w/drybreak, fresh King Motorsports engine, Toda cams, Hi Tech Header, Mugen ECU, Apex-i, hours of tuning time, days of suspension set up, Piper cage custom cage, Moton triple adjustable remote resivor shocks, new axles, night driving lights, mugen radiator, mugen suspension and engine mounts, wired for radio communication, custom oil cooler, the best of everything, 205hp at the wheels on mustang dyno over $80,000 invested the best and probably only un-wrecked Type R (race car) left. Asking $25000

contact: jason@yellowstreakracing.com

 

Another biased Miata vote, but hey...

I can't imagine a car with more bang for the buck with half the reliability. The only problem I think you'll have with it is using it "ONLY" for autox and track events -- it is just too much fun to drive around in. Plus, in a Miata, you don't have to run kidney-killing springs in order to have a good time on an autox course or track. If you want to make sure that you can later "grow" with the car, I would recommend against an M2, as only the M1 is classed in SpecMiata.

 

Depending on what one can afford for a track car, in order of affordability, I would pick...

Miata
Caterham Super 7
Radical SR3 Tracksport (money no object)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chairman Kaga &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-Classic/semi-exotic RWD. Mainly Porsche guys. Honestly, I love the 944s but for a novice driver and mechanic, it may be too much to keep up with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well we all know what my vote is going to be. Honestly, I wouldn't group the 944 in with other Porsches because it's very easy to drive, work on and it certainly is a bastard child of the family. I'm no where near what a lot of these guys are around here and I do fine both driving and wrenching on my 944. What exactly about it is so intimidating?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well we all know what my vote is going to be. Honestly, I wouldn't group the 944 in with other Porsches because it's very easy to drive, work on and it certainly is a bastard child of the family. I'm no where near what a lot of these guys are around here and I do fine both driving and wrenching on my 944. What exactly about it is so intimidating?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do they do well in CSP/ES? I think a 944 would be a great option for going to the track and going to the grocery store but not knowing how they do in Solo 2 (and I thought that was part of the criteria) it probably isn't the easy choice over the Miata. Personally, I think both (the Miata and 944) are great fun cars but I'd think there is more out there (performance wise) on the cheap side for the Miata than the 944. If going w/ the latter, personally I'd get the early suspension (86 and earlier) because of all the lightweight wheels availible (got a little frustrated finding anything under 18 lbs. for my 87).

 

I didn't read Solo II as the requirement but yeah, you're right. For the most part a Miata is cheaper to buy and modify but I don't think it's got quite the gap that people assume it does. There are certainly far more venues that a Miata can be competitive in than a 944.

 

Having driven Bowie's Miata at VIR last weekend, I say a nicely done Miata is the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Having driven Bowie's Miata at VIR last weekend, I say a nicely done Miata is the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the sort of recommendation I'm looking for!


I do love Porsches, and a 944s would rock my socks off, I'm sure. But from what I'm getting from you guys, the Miata is pretty much ideal for my circumstances. I can pick up a 96 (isn't that the lighest model with a 1.8L?) for a few grand, strip it, set it up for auto-x AND Spec, run at a variety of venues, have an absolute blast and not spend every spare penny I earn.
And for the record, isn't the 2nd gen RX7 about on par with the 944s of the same vintage? I remember seeing some old 5th Gear comparo footage, but don't quite remember how it shook out. I like the 7 too, but maintenance on a rotary scares me a bit. I mean, I do plan on having a job and stuff!

 

I had an 86 rx7 and can say that the handling is not quite as good as the 944 and the horsies are the undersize Mazda type versus the very healthy Porsche type. On track the 944 is faster than a stock rx7. Setup in ITS, the opposite is true and the rx7 is superior. Rotaries will last fairly well, but they will not survive being overheated. Good used or rebuilt motors are getting harder to find and can be expensive for a Japanese car.

As for the miata, many clubs will not allow an open car into track schools without at least a roll bar and a number require cages. This is of course only a concern if you are running the car in stock versus spec miata.

 

no 125 shifter karts? :D
those kick *** in autox as well

 

I had an 86 RX-7 and have a 87 944-S. From memory, the rear end feels lighter on the RX-7 than the 944 but I remember it handling extremely well (I do have this memory of it constantly hopping when trying to take off from a stop but I was probably just driving it wrong). I think they basically have very similar characteristics power-wise - the 16v 944 makes virtually all its poop between 4000 and 7000 rpm, the RX-7 goes from pretty impotent to full boil right through the buzzer and both are rather torqueless (the 8v 944 on the other hand seems to make more torque down low than mine from the dyno sheets I've seen). Both of them have almost identical gearing (the 944-S gearing is the same as the later 944 2.7L gearing IIRC). I used to think (and sold my RX7 for this reason) that the issues surrounding the apex seals made it an impractical car - not sure that's really the case as I sold mine prior to 80k miles (tmk, life expectency at that time of the apex seals). I think parts for the 944 8v are fairly easy to come by on ebay and junkyards - some things, like for my S are less so. I would think the RX7 would be about the same cost on an ongoing basis but gotta think getting an old 944 ready for the track will cost you some cash. The Miata (again) would be the best of all worlds *I would think* as they made a zillion of them and they seem rather stout and they are very fun little cars to drive and have awesome brakes.

 

Ok, so if I were to have THREE cars (Mazda 3 5-door for a daily driver, Miata for racing, and 944s for fun) I'd be stocked up on automotive karma!
Thanks for the help guys. I still have a few months left over here, and of course I have to find a job, but it never hurts to have a plan in place. And it looks like I'll be Miata shopping by the end of the year. Now the question is - what year? I hear the '96 is the all-around power:weight champ. Is this true?