I'm likely taking the '89 Civic Si to Willow Springs (big track) next Monday. Car has the stock 190k mile D16A6, I/H/E, and suspension, running 205/50-15 Azenis. Brakes are R4S front, stock shoes rear, good Valvoline synth fluid.

The car has been autocrossed plenty, but never been on track before. Fortunately Willow is pretty easy on brakes, but I stopped using the R4S on my S2000 when they'd turn to charcoal after 1 session at the Streets.

So... will the brakes meltdown? I've got some brake ducting material I could put on if it'll help. Will the motor overheat? Should I put in Water Wetter? Temperatures predicted in the 60's. Any other gotchas?

What would be a good time for a car with this setup?

Thanks!

 

I've tracked my car quite a bit in the last month.

Things I've noticed. Setup is the exact same as auto-x except lowered my rear shocks settings slightly to start with.

Brakes will meltdown. Get ducting quick. I've destroyed my brakes and can't get them back to normal now.

Motor will be fine and won't overheat.

I've been starting with pressures around 28 cold and they warm up to around 35 hot on the azenis.

Have fun. Can't wait to get my car back out on track again, or even auto-x really.

 

Temperatures this week across the desert are int eh 70's ... on the track maybe 5degrees hotter?? .... If it were middle of summer I'd probably worry about overheating, but if youre car normally runs fine and your radiator is cool overheating shouldnt be an issue... just keep an eye on it the temp gauge.

 

the streets are notorious for being tough on brakes, but the big track is no where near as tough. the brake zones are few and far between, with ample time to cool off. with temps in the 70's, you should be more than fine. bring some shade, and some fluid (for you).

 

I've tracked a stock celica GT (not even an GT-S) with drum rears and stock pads and it was fine. Bleed fluid, and you'll be good to go.

Got a baffled oil pan? Willow Springs = Possible Oil starvation.

 

Hi Jason,

with your speed, I would definitely chunk the R4S.

 

i went to the willow springs website and looked for the track records. ITA track record is something like 1:38.xxx so i'm thinkin with your skillz you should be running something like a 1:35.xxx or so.

which tires are you going to be using? falken, kumho, Goodyear 25A?

nate

 

I dunno, 1:35 is pretty fast for 108hp. I'll be using the same crappy old Falkens Ken and I drove back from Nationals on, on heavy 15x6.5" wheels.

What do ITA cars have done to them and how/why would I be faster? How about Honda Challenge H4? I know the H4 motors make quite a bit more power than me and they run on RA1s. Hopefully I can get within a few seconds of a good H4 time...

 

ITA track record is 1:34.991. Not sure if the record page is accurate. If it is, no track record in any class since 1997 which I find hard to believe. 1:35s are typical for the fastest ITA/H4 guys but of course it depends on temperatures. If you go under 1:40 on street tires you should be very pleased.

Don't worry about brakes on the big track.

 

You didn't mention the suspension mods so it will be hard to compare times to existing class times for that car. The ITA/H-4 guys run in the 1:36-38 range. You'll be heavy, under powered and have less grip than those cars on RA-1s. I'd say you should be proud of anything under 1:50 with that set-up. Don't get too worried about it though. You'll probably have a better day and more fun if you don't look at your times until the last session or two.

The big track shouldn't be a problem for R4S pads without venting. You'll be playing the momentum game there anyway, so big/late stomps on the binders aren't really necessary. Best things you can do for your brakes without too much effort is to flush and bleed the brakes with good DOT 3/4 brake fluid from a new, up-opened bottles. I use Castrol GT-LMA with Porterfield R4 pads on my 91 Civic and have never had a problem. Also, really USE the cool off lap. The easiest way to wrap your rotors is to bring it in hot and then just park it. I try to stay off the brakes entirely on the cool off lap. Still, it doesn't hurt to have a new pair of rotors with you, just in case.

The big challenge for you with that car will be learning to stay OFF the brakes. With time and a smooth driving style you can probably be flat through turn 2 in 3rd and flat through 8 in 4th. Apex as late as you possibly can for turn 9. Likely a good bit later than you'll feel comfortable. The real danger there (in 9) is an early turn-in and early exit... right off the track.

Be smooth. Have fun.

Thawley

 

PS: I wouldn't worry too much about oil starvation. Jonathan Spiegel's 89 Civic F/Production racer runs a stock D-series pan and pick-up on slicks with no problem. Just as long as the level is good to start with, it won't be an issue.

Thawley

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The big challenge for you with that car will be learning to stay OFF the brakes. With time and a smooth driving style you can probably be flat through turn 2 in 3rd and flat through 8 in 4th. Apex as late as you possibly can for turn 9. Likely a good bit later than you'll feel comfortable. The real danger there (in 9) is an early turn-in and early exit... right off the track.
Thawley</TD></TR></TABLE>

very good advice. i also noticed many people over-brake for turn one, usually because they're going 120mph+ down the front straight. you can left foot brake it and skip the downshift and just push through - lots of grip to be had there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dunno, 1:35 is pretty fast for 108hp. I'll be using the same crappy old Falkens Ken and I drove back from Nationals on, on heavy 15x6.5" wheels.

What do ITA cars have done to them and how/why would I be faster? How about Honda Challenge H4? I know the H4 motors make quite a bit more power than me and they run on RA1s. Hopefully I can get within a few seconds of a good H4 time...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

missed the , huh? me &lt; comedian.

like others said, if you get within 2-3 seconds of ITA/H4 lap records, i'd think you should be really pleased. without them sticky hoosiers/RA1s, lsd, final drive, 40 over motor and headwork it's an uphill battle for sure.

i think jason's car might be a little under weight for ITA/H4. whats the minimum weight for a legal car?

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PS: I wouldn't worry too much about oil starvation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I fried my NSX motor there with adequate oil.

I *think* it was a result of oil starvation (no baffled pan), A0-32Rs, only 40k on motor

Ever since, I am always thinking about the engine every second of Turn 2 at high rev's...

Oh, BTW, didn't realize it was Jason Rhoades posting- I'm sure you'll be haulin ***, but I still think you wont need an upgrade. I would bring an extra set of pads just in case.

 

Doh, sorry Nate! The smilies on this site all look the same. i.e., = ?

Car + driver minimum for H4 is 2175, which I'll be right around. Driver still trying to lose 20lbs.

I'm down about 12-13 "hub" HP to an H4 D16A6. Aero on the Civic is supposed to be worse than the CRX too, which really hurts at Willow.

With a 7500rpm limiter, 3rd gear only goes to about 89 in the car. I'm hoping to need 4th gear around turn 2 without lifting on entry. Guess we'll see! I'm probably going to get a camera mounted in the car too, so y'all can critique my skillzlessnez..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D.CACO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I fried my NSX motor there with adequate oil.
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Apples and oranges.