This kind of a tough one to ask. Although Auto Power's (4 point) bolt-on roll bars are the best bang for the buck, are they really built strong enough for competition *club racing* purposes? Would you trust it when you're strap in with a 5point harness knowing if the roof caves in the only thing preventing you from death is Auto powers bolt-on bar? Anyone care to share their experience personal or word of mouth about the roll-bar holding up or not in an incedent?

I'll contact Auto Power, but I'd also like to hear what anybody has to say about their products. Thanks.

 

I don't see why you would not trust the bar/cage. The same type of tubing is used to make Auto Powers cage as a custom built $1600 cage or even a Kirk Racing Cage. And, if you use grade 8 or higher bolts to bolt together the cage together I don't think you'll have a problem, hell I use grade 8 bolts to bolt mine to the car. Granted it is also welded to the car, but no harm in being extra careful. If you are worried about the bolts, after you get it installed, go to a good welding company and having them TIG weld all of the connections that are bolted together. Answer to your question: I have never seen or heard of an Auto Power (or other cage) fail under the duress it was designed to withstand. My .02 cents worth.

 

Last time I checked, Autpower rollbars are not legal for any form of sanctioned club racing. Any club that offers insurance will require a full cage.

The full bolt-in cage is fine when installed properly. I've never seen or heard of the cage failing. I have heard rumors of the cage pulling out of the floor, but again, just rumors (if it happened, it was likely installed wrong, or installed in a rusty tub).

I have seen some pretty nasty accidents in which the cage worked as designed and the drivers were protected. One such incident was three years ago at Summit Point - Jim Epting got nudged off the track on the main straight and hit a ridge, the car was launched into the air and rolled several times. The cage and passenger area held up, the car was a total loss. Jim had some injuries, but nothing permanent.

Possibly Grumpy can comment - he is an SCCA tech inspector.

 

4pt roll bars are not legal for anything but Solo1 competition. You need a 6pt bar for club racing.

 

Autopower makes 6 point cages too, and they are Solo I legal. They are also legal in a local conference here in the NW, the ICSCC. I know of a couple people that race (fender to fender) with a 6 point Autopower bar.

 

Funny you should mention that one, Al... I literally watched it happen from the "spectator rocks" inside T1 (~100 yards away). It was horrible - definitely a lot of metal carnage and acrobatics that you wouldn't even wish on your worst enemy. BUT, that accident made me a believer in the quality of the standard, off the shelf, bolt-in Autopower 6-point Race Roll Cage. Seeing the car afterward... the passenger compartment was essentially fine, but every other part of the car was totally trashed. So the cage did its job...

I would add the caveat that it depends on what car you are putting it in. That RX-7 was small, slow, and light... but the same might not hold true for a supercharged Mustang or something else heavy/fast. Laws of physics are definitely at play regarding this issue...

For me personally, I am now on my second Autopower rollbar in as many track cars. (Note: again, not legal for club racing, only for Solo I.) Having sold many of them via dayjobs and having used them for the last few years, I can safely say that I *do* trust the company and the quality of their products. There is no doubt in my mind that in a rollover, their 4pt bar *is* the difference between destroying the car, and destroying the car but also ending up in the hospital (or worse).

We have SCCA to thank for all this... they make the safety rules that pretty much everyone else follows, including cage constructors... and I, for one, am very glad about that.

Trying to help,

Jon
PS- Don't skimp on safety, ever. Just because some of us think the Autopower products are decent, doesn't mean squat. Don't settle 'because someone told you it was ok'... get the best bar/cage you can afford, and be happy.

 

Autopower makes two related products, a 6-point Race Roll Cage and a 4-point Race Roll Bar. They both come as bolt-in, but can be welded in, instead. And there are significant differences between the two that I want to make clear here.

The "cage" is a six-points-of-attachment unit: two near the drivers feet, two at the b-pillar, and two rearward (like rear fender arches or c-pillar bases or etc). It features a full, nearly rectangular "halo" of bars around the passenger compartment, as well as door bars on the sides to protect against side impacts, a diagonal bar in the main hoop, and a horizontal bar in the main hoop for proper harness mounting. This cage is legal for wheel-to-wheel roadracing with SCCA, NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, and probably a bunch of other organizations. It is also legal for Solo I. It is available in ERW or DOM tubing, depending upon the rules of the appropriate organization and/or the weight of the car in question. Here are pictures of the Autopower 6-point Race Roll Cage:

cage pic #1

cage pic #2


On the other hand, the 4-point Race Roll Bar is essentially just the rear half of the cage. That is, the main hoop is at the b-pillar and the rear attachment points are the same, but there is no halo and no door bars and no structure around the passenger compartment. Bars have diagonal supports in the main hoop, and optional horizontal harness bars. Bars are only available in ERW tubing as of 10/01. Bars are legal for SCCA Solo I, Solo II, and most recreational "track schools" on road courses. But because they offer less rollover protection than a cage, and they don't offer much for side impact protection, they are NOT wheel-to-wheel-roadracing legal with any organization that I know of. Here are pics of the Autopower 4-pt Race Roll Bar:

bar pic #1

bar pic #2


Again, there are significant differences between the two. Each is great for its intended purpose, but a proper selection should be made based on what the car is actually going to be used for. Occasional schools and time trials? Get a roll bar. Frequent schools and/or future roadracing plans? Get a roll cage.

Hope that helps,

Jon
(an Autopower dealer)


[Modified by nojrecar, 11:59 AM 10/26/2001]

 

I was at a SOVREN Vintage Road Race event last season and saw a older Alfa Romeo roll at SIR. The whole car basically folded and smashed around the shape of the cage. The driver was okay, and he had a 6-point Autopower roll cage. I have a 4-point race bar with the cross and diagonal bars in my car that will be for sale soon. I'll be getting the 6-point cage (or custom made if I can afford it) for Solo1 next year.

I think civicrr had a roll over last year and is glad he had a roll bar.

Yes, I do have a real harness now.

 

Raymond, I saw your post in the other forum, and just wanted to let you know that the Autopower bar is not legal for drag racing, but I noticed you do club racing. You need to check your rulebook about the thickness of the tubing used, and the floor plate size. Autopower makes them in different thickness' and the floor plates are 4x3 (I think).

We sell the Autopower bars, and can have it shipped directly from Autopower to you.

E-mail me if you want more info.

 

Thanks for the replies. Its greatly appreciated.

Believe it or not the local race event where I live * TCRA under 2.2 liter challenge cup* is allowing the use of 4 point bars as long as its approved by SCCA.
Is their an SCCA approved Auto Power roll bar?

as quoted from TCRAs web site..

"9. Safety Equipment
All cars must equip with a SCCA approved 4-point roll bar, 6 or more point roll cage is highly recommended. A SFI or FIA approved racing seat, 5-point harness and window net is required. A fire extinguisher must be installed inside the cockpit within easy reach of the driver. A push or pull type fire system is highly recommended. All vehicles must be equipped with a kill switch that could be reached from the outside of the vehicle. FT-3 spec. fuel cell is highly
recommended for added safety. (All race vehicles must pass TCRA safety inspection. For fur-ther information, please review the TCRA handbook under safety equipment requirements."

I think I'll wait until I'm ready to fully commit my car for racing and swing for a cage.

 

short answer: yes the Autopower roll-bar is SCCA-approved

long answer : it's only approved for Solo1 racing, see posts above.

 

Excellent Idea! But meantime, if you are going to do any Timr Trials or lapping days... get a Roll bar at the minimum.

 

OMFG. Only in California, I swear.

A 4 point bar is great if you're just going out for a driving school (not race school). It'll let you safely attach a harness, and it'll definately hold up in a rollover, but RACE conditions are a whole different ballpark. WTF. I'm sorry but that's just stupid to allow 4 pointers in racing. **** happens when you race. **** like getting t-boned, or running into a solid barrier head-on.

Ugg.

Warren

 

Can someone explain the difference between ERW and DOM tubing?

 

ERW and DOM are similar. They are both mild steel and were both originally created as a flat plate, rolled into a tube, and welded together at a seam. The basic difference is that ERW is "crush bent" like generic exhaust tubing, which means the bends fold the tubing inward to make it more narrow and weak at its bends and seams, while DOM is "mandrel bent" from straight pipe that has been welded and smoothed moreso than ERW, to a seamless state, so all the curves maintain the same inside diameter throughout. (With custom exhaust, mandrel-bending increases strength and flow efficiency.) This in turn makes the unit stronger per inch, which is why some organizations allow it to be made of smaller/thinner tubing, which in turn saves sprung weight on the car (and increases cost).

For most practical purposes, like rollbars for track schools, ERW does very well. The necessity for DOM depends entirely upon budget and club/class rules and overall goals. On a pure dedicated racecar I would use DOM, but in a more exotic alloy metal like chromemoly (stronger than DOM mild steel, so again, allowed in thinner/lighter tubing).

The best thing I have ever seen online about the subject was written by my friend Ken Myers:
http://www.ioportracing.com/faqs.htm


Hope that helps,

Jon
PS- New as of Oct '01 is Autopower's rule that all 4-pt bars will be made of ERW, while full cages can be made of ERW or DOM. AFAIK they are no longer doing anything in chromemoly, at least not for an off-the-shelf application.

 

Here is my testimonial. The Autopower cages work. I had one in my last car (ERW) that I added a additional doorbar to each side & had welded. I had a rollover @ Sears Point this Feb. I went off track going about 75 mph with the driver's side sliding in the direction of travel. The left front tire dug into the mud almost immediately. The car rolled almost completely in the air before making contact where the a-pillar meets the roof (passenger side). It then rolled again impacting the same area. The car stopped on the roof. I got out of the car with just a small scratch on my leg. I was wearing full safety gear including a NECKBRACE. The corner where the car impacted was pushed in/down about 1 1/2". The mounting plate (which was bolted) below the impact point started to push/seperate the floorboard from the rail. My current car has a Autopower DOM cage that is welded. I also had some material welded in to form mounting plates. These tie in the floorboard to the rail for the 4 forward (Autopower) mounting plates. FYI, when I cut the cage out of the old car, the car 'sprung'. The cage was keeping the unibody from twisting more. It ended up being 2 1/2" (front right to rear left) twisted at the jack points under the rockers!


[Modified by civicrr, 9:47 PM 10/27/2001]

 

Autopower rollcages have worked at the track. It is a one use item. They have been known to deform as they absorb the stresses of a severe rollover. I have seen some minor cracking at the joints in severe cases, BUT the cage did its job.

I have also seen professional weld in cages that have cracked under the stresses as well.

Get the best protection you can afford.

Grumpy

 

I agree with this to the extent that if you can't afford much, you can't afford to go racing. Get the protection that both a) meets minimal safety standards established by your racing organization, and b) you feel safe enough in. What fits "b" may be (and hopefully will be) well in excess of what meets "a". When you think about being on a track, remember that it's not just your "mad skillz" preventing an accident; you've got to take in consideration that there are others out there who may or may not have the same track skills, and may or may not use good judgement in executing track manuevers. They don't call incidents "accidents" because people are trying to have them.

Karen