OK, i do not know what is going on about all the shearing of the sway bars, but i have heard that it does not happen to everyone and it does not seem to be realated to anything more then faulty installation.

I have a 19mm ST sway bar bolted to my subframe and getin some 500lb in springs for my autocross/lapping car. Is this a recipt for disaster?

I would figure the the subframe tearning out would be due to the fact that there is a missaligment of the mount holes causing torsion on the bolts, or there is binding of the bushings cause torgue on the bolts..other then that there is not reason for the metal to give out over the displacment of the bar. ?

no?


Modified by B HATCH at 12:30 PM 3/30/2004

 

From my understanding the tear out comes from the fact that the sub frames on the EK and EG chassis, or any car that does not come stock with a sway bar, are not reinforced like the ITR or CTR or even the SI. the sub frame is just stronger and to compensate some people use the Beaks kit or the Comptech tie bar/sway bar combo.

I am personally looking at this piece
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=544068

hopefully that helps

 

A swaybar is theoretically only supposed to be in torsion about its central axis (axis of the long middle part or the equivalent for a curved bar). However, the vertical forces from the wheel moving up causes a reaction force at the subframe mount. With a really stiff bar, this reaction force is large and can cause the subframe tearout.

There is no way to avoid the reaction force at the subframe, so subframe tearout is dependent upon the strength of subframe and the stiffness of the swaybar. It doesn't have to be misinstalled.

 

what happens when the subframe 'tears out'? The subframe breaks? The bolt rips out of the body, and it has to be re-threaded? The car behind you has to swerve around a 100lb chunk of unit body and you fly off the track in flames?

 

Rear subframe tear out generally occurs when pairing a big sway bar with soft springs using standard mounting.

 

Don't the ST kits usually come with mounting plates that you have to drill an extra hole to fit? my Integra's rear bar kit did...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my understanding the tear out comes from the fact that the sub frames on the EK and EG chassis, or any car that does not come stock with a sway bar, are not reinforced like the ITR or CTR or even the SI. the sub frame is just stronger and to compensate some people use the Beaks kit or the Comptech tie bar/sway bar combo.

hopefully that helps</TD></TR></TABLE>


Kinda, I don't know about the ITR or CTR subframe but on the Si sub frame. There is a small plate on the inside of the sub-frame. However this isn't the best thing in the world. Wes from Beaks says when installing their kit, that you need to knock it out and replace it with their plate. Due to the fact that the Si OEM place is not sufficent.
I also talked to a guy who had an Ek hatch that purchased a complete CTR rear sway kit with the little "plates" and it tore out after a month. The Mugen plate is the same as the CTR, no good. Really the Beaks kit is the best way to go. I have done a good deal of research, and talked to Wes at Beaks. Askind 20,000 of questions.

BTW, you don't need to weld the Beaks "plate" when installing the kit.

The problem with the sub-frame tearing comes to a lg. ~18mm+ bar, with inproper reinforcement and or weak (stock) suspension. The stock suspension flexes too much and puts too stress on the bushings/mounts in the middle.

 

OOOOOOH OOOOOOOOH i have pix of a perfect example of subframe tearing.

skunk2 23mm sway bar. i didnt put the mounting brackets on the the inside, but i think my soft rates and low ride hight were more the problem than missing the extra brackets.
i have since, removed the bar, put a new stiffer springs on, raised the car and learned a valuable lesson.

since image station blows.
heres the link to the album.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287749243

please take a look.
if any of you have ideas as to a good safe way to fix this PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

 

Here is a thread about sub-frame tear out. It has a good picture for anyone interested in the need for sub-frame reinforcement

https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1

Here is another thread of a piece that a fellow H-T memeber is making to improve the sub-frame strength

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=785497

 

So should i worry with the 22mm bar and my 500 bls springs in the rear?

After seeing that photos i'm scared. I have large washers in the back of my bolts and there is a mounting plate in the rear of the car that the bushings that attach too.

I like that large steel plate on that 99 civic si.

 

It's an aluminum plate.

With 500lb springs you're probably fine, but if I were you I would still get the comptech or some other bar to work with a reinforcement kit. (I'm using 500 lb/in. rear springs and the comptech bar and so far so good).

 

It becomes less of a concern with stiffer rear springs. Soft springs allow the wheel to travel further and faster (depending on shocks). Stock springs and a big rear sway are asking for it. I drilled through my subframe and attached another bolt to the D bracket of my Progress bar, instead of welding.

You should be fine with 500#/in springs and additional bracing (the extra bolt/washer).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's an aluminum plate.

With 500lb springs you're probably fine, but if I were you I would still get the comptech or some other bar to work with a reinforcement kit. (I'm using 500 lb/in. rear springs and the comptech bar and so far so good).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Comptech Bar in our H1 Racecar. The quality is !

If your seriously concerned about subframe tearout, the Comptech kit will give you the piece of mind your looking for.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B HATCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So should i worry with the 22mm bar and my 500 bls springs in the rear?


</TD></TR></TABLE>


Use a Beaks kit and u will be fine.