I just talked to the jun rep and he states the JUN 94 prelude vtec tested at 270 whp. This is with Jun exhaust manifold, custom exhaust, computer, cams, pistons, intake, and port and polish. Hard to believe but thats what he said. The pistons and cams are out. The computer is not. prices for cams with springs, retainers-2000. Pistons 12:1, 1600 without rings...rings are 1100. Well until i have the money ill be sticking with my S cams...Besides theyre on backorder for awhile. What do you guys think? anyone have the funds to do this? Im thinking with the pistons and cams with the computer you'll should be running close to 200 whp.

 

I don't think they hit quite that much.

 

They're not making 270whp. R&D's full race only H22a stroked and bored to 2.6l of displacement running 16:1 compression is rated at 260 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque. They gave up some hp to get that torque, but 270 whp is still out of the league of direct replacement parts and pump gas.

 

Amen to that.

 

Why not??? Perhaps yuou could give us you educated reasoning as to why not? Thanks!

 

OK... since you evidentally don't know anything about cars, or you're just trying to start ****, I'll explain it to you.
Stock H22A1's will put down what, 165 to the ground?

Jun exhaust manifold, custom exhaust: since Honda H22A1s aren't that bad off in the first place, you're looking at possibley a 10 whp increase.
That's 175whp.
computer: this is giving you access to a higher redline, more fuel and timing and a little more power up top. I'd say this might release UP TO 10 hp peak.
185whp.
Cams: this might be the greatest of all increases. Only with the increased compression and tuning of cam gears (which weren't mentioned) you *might* crank out 30whp. That's pushing it.
215 whp.
Pistons: 12:1 up from 10:1 is up two compression points. There are needed 100% for the cams that you are talking about running. Each compression point is between 7-10 hp (or 5-7.5 whp). Lets be generous and give the max of 7.5.
We're at 230 whp.
The Prelude head is very well designed. You might gain 10 whp out of porting and polishing head and intake manifold. That's a MIGHT.
240whp.
Now, springs and retainers are not going to give you a lot of HO so much as allow you to run those cams and the higher rpm. So you're looking at maybe 2-3 whp.
243whp.

Now, you aren't running 9k rpm with stock rods (which 8,500+ is about where your main power will be now.) So you might as well start asking about how much THOSE are going to cost.

You're still 37 whp SHORT of 270. Tuned I would've been somewhere close to 230-250 whp.

That's why I say "doubt it."

 

There is no way they hit that with a 2.2L motor without revving it up to 11k RPM.

Let's do some math.

310hp at the flywheel * .87(13% drivetrain losses) = ~270whp

Now 310hp is ALOT, but I guess it could be done if you had alot of revs. How many revs? Let's find an approximation.

The stock H22A puts out ~150 ft-lbs of TQ. Let's be really generous and say this modded engine is putting out 200 ft-lbs of TQ with stock displacement. I highly doubt it could ever do this, but we'll use it for estimating.

so 200ft-lbs of flywheel TQ * ~8100RPM / 5252 = 308hp ~ 310hp at the flywheel.

So assuming this stock displacement engine can put out almost 33% more torque with just increased compression, cams and bolt-ons, it would have to make that much power to at least 8100RPM, which I highly doubt. As this would most likely mean its peak TQ was higher and it would rev to over 9000RPM, which I would like to see a H22A handle that on a normal basis.

I think ~230-240whp on a stretch might be possible. But that thing would have to be tuned pretty well and rev to at least 8500RPM(1000 more than stock redline I believe).

 

Thank you for your explination! It was well put, and point taken. But after spending a few hours with people from JUN USA, 270 HP sounds like it could easily be attained. I just would like to see the proof like some of you guys would! (Not saying that I doubt JUN or question their quality) ITR1236's car is proof in the pudding!

 

270 IS easy. It just take more than that.

 

Sorry man, the only way this is conceivable is if they are revving the engine over 10K - at 10K you'd have to be generating over 140 lb/ft of torque to the wheels to get this kind of HP and w/ an engine the size of an H22 you are going to run into some really freaky harmonics and have zero bottom end (maybe they left that part out) - maybe they did it for one dyno pull or something, but I think most people here are interested in power they can a) use and b) use w/o grenading their engines (isn't that right Todd?)...

A stock H22 has a torque peak of ~135-140 at ~5200 RPMs and has dropped to less than 110 when it hits the rev limiter at 7500 - I'm not saying it can't be done, but that's going to take some SERIOUS voodoo to get there.

Do you have any idea what RPM JUN is claiming that WHP # appears at?

Paul

 

Our cams kill off our hp and torque on the top end.

 

JUN SUPER LEMON PRELUDE
The H22A NA underwent continual parts testing. Endurance tests were conducted for more than a year. With specifications which make it convenient even for town driving, it marked more than 260 ps,exhibiting ultra-performance results.

This was taken off of the JUN Japan site
JG JUN is amazing, I have met all of the JUN USA guys and even a couple of the JDM boys, they are awesome (thats why I have there cams, valve springs, retainers, and gears)

 

I gave my opinion.
Take it or leave it... but don't argue with it.

 

The JUN 4th gen did not make 260ps at the wheels, it made 260 ps at the fly. I've talked with a few people (very knowledgeable people) who saw it in person last year at SEMA and spoke with the JUN people. For some reason everyone at the US shop says 260 hp to the ground.

Gabe

 

That is far more believable - I would accept 260ps (~250 HP) at the flywheel.

Paul

 

Much Much Much more like it.

 

I third that.

 

those stage 3 JUN cams make power way up there...i would think they just rev it up there for the dyno just to show u them numbers.....250's wheels is more like it
9500 rpm

that 270 is probably flywheel


[Modified by bommiE, 10:06 PM 10/23/2001]

 

Oh yeah whoops I forgot to mention that it was FW HP

 

i always assumed that about 300 was the max you could get to the wheels with natural aspiration...but this would be with all the mods...spending A LOT...boring out all the way, increased displacement like hell...

Since they never mentionsed that...JG luder and the others seem right on target...I'd trust them

 

That sounds great because I am going to be in close contact with JUN from now on, as I know most of the employees, and they know me well.

I am going to build several prelude VTEC motors, not stroked, but stock crank and make 250 at the wheels.

I am waiting on the cams.

Jeff

 

Allmotor maddness in the last honda tuner rag it's got Jeremy lowfski in it. His all motor prelud eengine is said to put out around that much to the floor to run 10sec. This is in his Crx with mad rod to ratio mods and such special stuff they wouldn't even tell honda tuner.

 

That's the one I listed up above. His name is Lookofsky and his engine was done by R&D racing. There's a fairly detailed breakdown of the engine in the August 2001 SCC, same article "ALL MOTOR MADNESS". The amount of custom and radical bleeding edge work to get 260/200 to the wheels is crazy. They did give up a good amount of horsepower to get that 200 lb-ft of torque though.


[Modified by DirtyLude, 12:22 PM 10/24/2001]

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, as it is a serious question: Are you talking about a usable around town, daily driver motor w/ 250 WHP or a race-only rebuild every 500-1000 miles or at the end of the race season, which ever comes first 250 WHP?

Paul

 

I think I'm non rolling proof that is should be the second of the two.