Thinking about these two hybrid motor set-ups just looking for people's opinion, information about tuning problems, driveability issue's detonation, etc... That people with these set-ups have encountered. Any info is appreciated.

Ls/Vtec-
B18b Block
CTR pistons
New Rod bearings
p72 Head
ITR valves
CTR cams
OEM Gasket
Vafc
B&M FPR/Gauge

Poor Man's R
p72 Block
B16a1 head
Ctr Pistons
CTR cams
Itr Valves
OEM gasket
Vafc
B&M FPR/Gauge

again any info opinion is great. Car is my weekend fun car/trial & error learning project. funds are limited as im still in school.

 

both setups look like really strong street motors. i'd go with the poor man r because i'm biased and that's my setup right now.

 

In my opinion, I would go with the Ls/Vtec because I have one in my integra except i am using an Gs-R head with stock cams for now You will notice the amount of Torque+HP thru out the power band and i gurantee you will like it alot. I have beat plenty of mild N/A Type Rs and it is very fun to beat them.

if you plan on building LSvtec. Prepare to pay alot money cuz its very expensive if you want it to be very reliable. Make sure to balance the whole bottom end with new bearings and DO NOT SKIP ANY STEPS. and afterwards get it tune to since CTR will boost ur compression in the 12:1s compression.

 

p72 head with pct pistons, i was told is a bad idea, unless you like hitting the head with your pistons

 

The specific LS/Vtec set-up you stated seems a bit too high comp for the street. You will be over 12:1 comp with the CTR's in the B18b bottom end. Unless you have 93+ octane I dont think I'd recommend it. The Poor-mans R will yeild better numbers out of the 2 set-ups you listed plus it woul d be more reliable. Go with the Aaarrr.

 

i would do the ls vtec because of the longer stroke and the more torque
and i would never use ctr pistons unless their going in a b16
just use some pr3 pistons

 

so far so good guys please keep all opinions coming. the reason why 12:1 doesn't scare me is because of the availability of 94 octane here in SW Pa. I was going to put the CTR pistons in my B18c block but that extra 1% c/r increase up to 13.0-13.1:1 scared me, that and piston to valve clearance, b/c of the extra deck height of the piston. Oh, the reason why I personally thought the ls/vtec might be the way to go was b/c of the longer stroke-more torque which is a lot more noticable that insane top end power that im predicting will occur with the PMR( Poor man's R).

with the Ls/vtec is it nessaccary(spelling) to balance the bottom end, if your not going to be running over 200WHP and are on OEM parts. I have read otherwise, no. But if its a matter of saving my motor then I suppose by all means it is needed.

What about a toda/cometic headgasket to slightly lower c/r, I agree that TOO much compression can be your motor's downfall so if indeed either set-up will be in the low-mid 12's:1

Once again Thank you for your time/knowledge with helping me choose a set-up.

Dax

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMSaint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The specific LS/Vtec set-up you stated seems a bit too high comp for the street. You will be over 12:1 comp with the CTR's in the B18b bottom end. Unless you have 93+ octane I dont think I'd recommend it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is too high even for 93 with out good flowing components. Ask me how i know.

-sander

 

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Modified by 1meanB18c5civic at 10:00 AM 3/16/2004

 

i say pmr because thats what i have . plus i just never liked that oil line thing w/ a ls/vtec to me thats just an extra room for error if the motor looses oil pressure

 

poormans type R, less machine work..more money in the pocket

 

i say poor man's R..well cuase i run it.. almost, and my motor makes really good power..its smooth as hell too..revs freely(heh?) plus it will be more reliable and cheaper..it prob make less power, and i dont think its such a big diff..pm for my dyno sheet if ya want...gl w. ur decision..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6h8k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i say poor man's R..well cuase i run it.. almost, and my motor makes really good power..its smooth as hell too..revs freely(heh?) plus it will be more reliable and cheaper..it prob make less power, and i dont think its such a big diff..pm for my dyno sheet if ya want...gl w. ur decision.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah.. I run a poor man's ITR as well.. its a very reliable setup and good power too..

 

With a PMR will I have any problems with the CTR piston Valve clearance with the b16a head? My cams will be CTR's as well. Or shoud I just use some PR3 or P30 Pistons in my B18C block with the B16A head. and what should my c/r yield with a set up like this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackout95teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With a PMR will I have any problems with the CTR piston Valve clearance with the b16a head? My cams will be CTR's as well. Or shoud I just use some PR3 or P30 Pistons in my B18C block with the B16A head. and what should my c/r yield with a set up like this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You shouldn't have any problems with piston to valve clearance with that setup at all. As far as CR with the two pistons, they are going to be somewhere between 11.4:1 and 11.6:1 or so respectively. You can find the PR3 pistons cheaper and since its only about a .2 point difference in CR, I would just go with them since you are on a budget. Referencing your cam selection, I would pass on the CTR cams and get a set of Skunk2 Stage 1s. They would perform better than the CTR cams would and you don't have to upgrade the valvetrain to run them. I know two people who have them in their cars without valvetrain upgrades and they run just fine. Even though you are on a budget, this would be worth investing in. Just something to consider.

I was looking into a PMR myself for my 99 Si, but because of my tight budget and going to school full time, I plan on just keeping my stock B16 in it, getting an extra head and having it milled, PNP, and dropping in the Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, camgears, and valvetrain I still have in the garage. Since you already have a B18C1 in your car, all you need is a B16 head. A Poor Man's Type-R setup is a perfect way to go I think. Good luck.

 

poor mans itr

 

seeing people are being biased.....ls-vtec....Not sure about the CTR pistons but I'm only running 10.9 c/r with P72-AO's, not sure how those CTR's will work at 12+c/r. I dont see any sense in the ITR valve train by the time you pay for everything you could probably get something that would create more h/p. I've dont have R cams, running stock PR3 valve train and GS-R cams with p-p head. Saving up for some of Rockets gem....suxs being broke Just build it right. Dont rush it and half **** anything and it should be good. I would also some sort of crank girdle, either mod and use a GS-R/ITR or get an after market.......

 

pmr !! less headaches !!!