I have a H22, fully built. Bensen Sleeved block, etc etc.

EDIT, HERE IS A VIDEO OF THE PROBLEM http://www.cj-motorsports.com/timingbelt.wmv

Quick Story: My timing belt wants to walk off the pulleys quicker then I would expect it to.

Details: I am finishing up swapping the motor into my civic and getting things ready to go. Today I jumped the starter to prime the oil system.

I was cranking with the valvecover off so I could see oil coming out onto the cams, and so I could watch everything make sure its all good. I was also keeping an eye on my timing belt cause it had me paranoid from something I noticed a while ago.

When originally assemblying the motor I noticed that after using a rachet to crank the motor around with the timing belt on it, it would walk forward and rest on the only guide thats left on a H22 with no balance shafts, on the crank pulley.

So out of curiousity, with the motor still in the car I took the timing belt covers off and took off the guide... so there is nothing holding the timing belt on. I knew it was gonna walk off, but I wanted to see how fast. So I let it crank.

Within about 5-6 seconds of cranking, the belt walked halfway off the pulleys, so of course I stopped.

So now I am here, wondering... is it normal for the belt to want to walk off THAT fast without a guide? If so, I am going to fabricate another guide cause I dont trust the one that it has.

However I have a feeling that this is not normal. I fear that the block or head was incorrectly decked at an angle... which is all I can think of.

One thing I noted is that it was walking off in pulses, like it would walk, stop, walk, stop, walk, stop. But it was still moving quickly.

What do you guys think? Is something horribly wrong or would YOUR timing belt walk off without a guide too?

I put up a post a while ago when I was first concerned during assembly, see this thread for pictures.... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=766778

Thanks,
Charles


Modified by mister2racer at 1:19 AM 3/13/2004


Modified by mister2racer at 1:20 AM 3/13/2004

 

did you add the tension back onto the belt when u put it on?

mike

 

my friends car did the same thing, it turned out to be a bent camshaft. the cam was just slightly bent but enough to walk the belt off. also try some different cam gears, maybe theyre warped or something.

 

i was thinking that if there was a bent/warped part such as cam, crank, or a pulley... that the belt would walk back and fourth but stay in the same area... this thing will just keep going if i let it...

keep in mind, the video is showing it with no guide on it at all... when I have the lower guide on it doesnt come off... but it rests on the guide, and i would think it would eventually burn out and break the belt from friction during high RPM use.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeMAN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you add the tension back onto the belt when u put it on?

mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

yes... the belt is tensioned. look at the thread I linked... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=766778

you can see there photos of the engine outside of the car

 

I had the exact same problem 2 years ago on my h23a... the timing belt actually would walk off the cam gears and rub against the plastic timing gear cover.

It turned out the flat washer that you install ON the block before the tensioner rod was placed on the outside tensioner against the 12mm nut. Make sure you have that flat bonze looking washer installed against the block then torque on hte tensioner rod that has the other end threaded to secure the 12mm nut on. I think its a 12mm bolt... it could be a 14mm. From the pictures, I am about 99% sure you have the assembly installed incorrectly. If you did misplace the washer, this is why the belt is walking.

 

im having trouble figuring out what you are you describing... do you have any photos or diagrams?

actually i know what washer you are talking about. it is installed, so it must be another problem.

 

bump

 

well allright... people are telling me i am crazy and that is what I should expect with no belt guides on. i feel a little better... unless someone tells me that what that timing belt is doing in the movie is no good even without a guide...

it just feels so good finally being able to turn the key and have that motor crank in there.... pulling it apart again now would be worse than slitting my wrists i think.

 

Go get yourself a dial test indicator... Its a gauge with a magnetic base and a pin on it that can detect changes by the thousandth... People use it for setting up ring gaps in rearends and such. Then put the gauge up against each of the cam gears/crank pulley/tensioner, and anything else that touches the timing belt... whichever one has imperfections is your problem.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog...talog

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...=1717

 

ill take a look... but i dont think anything is wrong with the timing belt installation. maybe ill just convert back to the auto tensioner.

i have what your talking about, we use it to degree camshafts... but im not sure i have any room to work measuring this stuff with the engine in the car.

 

Make sure that washer is behind the tensioner and make sure its the proper one. It is a certain thickness and if you happened to swap in another the belt wont run true. I have had this problem before on another engine. It is def. worth double checking. Would hate to have you belt shredded in a matter of minutes when you run the engine initially. It wont kill you to pull the tensioner off and double check things maybe even get a new washer from honda and swap it on. I go for the easy stuff and then dive into checking runout on pulleys and stuff.

 

You might try putting your crank pulley on with the guide washer behind it.If it don't have a guide it will walk off like that.

 

imblown: the guide and crank pulley were removed to investigate how fast the belt would walk. with the guide and pulley on, it doesnt walk, but it just runs up to and rubs on the guide.

 

it did that on my ls motor and on my 2 stock d15 motors, i just figured thats what it did without the crank pulley on, but i put the crank pulley on and it move out to it and stay there no problem. i always assumed that how honda motors are

 

thanks man... i wanted to hear from other people who have tried without the guides to see if their motors did it too. thanks, makes me feel better.

today i took it all apart and checked out everything and put it all back together, its all mint. but it still does it... so its either normal or my deck(s) were machined wrong or something.

next week im gonna try a different timing belt... I took the one back off again and I cut it... when holding it by one end and letting it hang, it wanted to twist a little... i would THINK that it would just want to curl, but not twist... so who knows im gonna try another belt and maybe try the autotensioner again... all I can really do I suppose... I would rather at least try and run the motor like this with the guides and hope for the best before tearing the whole motor down again.

if the problem persists, ill go ahead and start dynoing, and just keep an eye on it. if after a few days on the dyno the belt doesnt show any wear, i will stop worrying.

 

Yeah from my experience the pulley and the little washer that goes behind the pulley is needed as well. That should keep it on and running true. I have left a washer off and or use a wrong washer on the tensioner or idler pulley (however you want to describe it) on another motor and the belt always walked so YMMV. My experience has been with toyotas mostly so..same principle though. Oh I also used to use a belt sander for some fab work I did and there was a screw that would change the angle on the pulley and you had to adjust at every belt change so its kind of the same thing. It was very touchy it was either flying off or it was in the center. It doesnt take much to make it walk to the side.

HTH and sounds like you got it figured out.

 

bump for the weekdays