Well, I can't say I'm surprised... everything in this car has a little gift that comes a long with it. Yesterday was the AutoX test and tune down in Indy... It was also the first time I got to mess around with the camber plates on my JICs. Picked the car up, pushed the camber in to about -2 deg and put the car down.... low and behold I also had who knows how much toe in. Then it dawned on me... the struts were going in... the tie rods werent. Stupid Honda and their dumbass steering design. This has caused nothing but trouble.
Anyone know how to fix this? The only thing I can think of is to get the alignment set in 2 places, then adjust both the camber plates and the tie rods every damn time I go autocrossing.... by June, that'll get old. Any other solution that someone has come up with? I don't think I can modify the tie rod ends in anyway... because technically, they're a suspension mounting point and in the STS rules, you can't modify it.

 

That's a reality of ANY car, isnt it?. If you adjust one attribute of the alignment, the others will change too, even in the rear multi-link suspension, the Toe changes when you change the camber.

Changing your suspension on the fly guarantees you'll have inconsistent performance and faster tire wear (I've been there).

There is such a thing as a streetable alignment that works for autocross. Having -2 degrees camber is no big burden on tires, as long as your TOE is close to zero.

 

I've never seen a camber plated car kick in this much. I'd almost go to say it turned the wheel in about as much as it would at full lock on the steering wheel. It has to do with the way the shock pivots and the steering being attached in the center, rather on the bottom at the knuckle. Its magnifying the effect.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">camber plated car kick in this much"?
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What I mean is I've never seen camber plates kick the toe in that much.

I know other people who have camber plates in their cars... they can adjust the plates and get a couple extra degrees of camber, then you can look at the toe angle, and it doesn't look like its changed much if any. Meanwhile I adjust it about a degree and a half, and I don't even think I could drive the car. I had the car aligned with the camber plates set to the 0 mark on the scale (the strut is centered in the hole) and its fine that way. So I guess the only way to do it is to shorten the tie rods when you do it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackdc5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The strut is centered on the upper mounts? You still have neg. camber right? I remember I had to adjust it further out to get zero camber.

Another way to realize the change of toe w/ camber on the front is the positioning of the steering tie rod arm relative to the change in position of the strut when you are dialing in more camber via the upper mounts. Changing camber up front via upper mounts angles the strut more (thus the camber) but that means it is going to try to push the steering arm IN as well. Since the steering arms don't move when you adjust the camber, the position of the tie rod ends are at the same spot, yet the strut is pushed in more....thus pushing the strut is rotated resulting in toe -in</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes... I know this. Thats what I've been saying all along. Thats the inherent problem with the steering arms being higher up on the strut. They're farther from the point of rotation than most cars, so the effect of moving the upper mount is magnifying the toe change.
What I want to know is there any way to correct this, besided just changing the tie rod length everytime. But apparently there isn't, so its just a set it once and be done with it thing and camber plates are of no more use than camber bolts... they just cost 20 times more.

 

Camber bolts can get knocked outta whack easier though...but I think the MAIN problem we're having is due to dropping the car just a little too low. This summer, Im raising mine up about .25" just so I can get a wee bit more negative camber or toe-out.

 

Just out of curiousity... how low did you go with it?
Mine's only down about 1.25"

I didn't really think that was too low, but I could be wrong. I know there have been issues with the tie rods getting messed up at 2" or more, but I haven't had any issues with the height yet.

 

I think I dropped mine right at 2" or just a little more.