Ok guys, we've pretty much beaten the headwork and cams debates to a pulp for a while.

So here's a new one:

I'm thinking out a little bit into the future and wondering what I would do if my bottom end went south...

Would it make sense to get a b20z short block and build it up to replace my b18c5 block?

If I were looking for 240-250whp out of this thing (all motor), what crank, rods, pistons, etc should I use. I could even get oil squirters installed by a local machine shop...

So what parts should I use, and what should I just swap over from my b18c5?

This should be a real good topic.

 

eek, 240-250 HP?

 

Yeah, I can choose rod and piston manufacturers (endyne/ wiseco and eagle), but what rod/ stroke ratio will be ideal and make the best power for this application?

We'll be revving to ? rpm, and why?

 

Hmmm, CTR pistons fit in a B20??? How about you sleeve your current block to 84.5 and then fit Eagle rods and RW pistons, say in the 12.5:1 variety.

 

I'd love to see someone spend money on a B20 with CTR pistons.

 

I think you might have a small problem with the rings sealing properly in that setup...81mm pistons dont fit too well in a 84mm bore

 

Im building the same type of motor, however im using my b18b block with eagle rods and rollerwaves. still deciding on the cams to use, going to get my head totally done ported etc. my goal is 240 to 250 whp. daily driver, and fairly quiet.

 

Anyway...for the setup...I say you resleeve your B18C5 block to 86mm. Endyn now offers 86mm pistons..you would get something like 2050cc of displacment.
Or you can bore a B20 to 86mm...not sure how reliable that would be.

 

lol, I didn't even catch that *typo* he made...

Well, you guys are right about the bore. I'm assuming my stock block isn't reusable, and a b20z block is gonna be cheaper to buy than a b18...

I'm actually considering building a b20 short block as I've described above and swapping the block out when it's time for a rebuild. That way I have next to no down time and an extra block to build...

I have heard that crower rods are stronger than eagle for certain applications, but that's just rumor... maybe some of those new importreview rods

Seriously: what crank, rods, and pistons to use and why? Let's assume rev limit is ~9500-10k, although we may not even need to rev over 9k to get the power (assumed by the b20's stock characteristics).

What rod/ stroke ratio would be ideal?

This is a road racing motor, but would probably accel in dragging or autox as well if it makes good power. But longevity is an issue, which is why the oil squirters...

 

Supposivly the highert he R/S Ratio the better...but of course less displacment. Its a trade off.

B20 blocks are definately not cheaper then B18B blocks. You can pick up a B18B block for like $250.
I would buy that and sleeve it to 86mm as I said...you would get a displacment if 2067cc...just about a 2.1 liter.
Eagle rods would be good...as well as a crank girdle would be needed.
Also if it will be used in road racing...oil squirters are important.

 

I'm pretty sure the the CRV motors are increasing displacement this year to ~2.3-2.4 liters. That being said - you might want to wait until one of those blocks are available and then put your fully built B18C5 head on it (with Toda Spec Cs).

I'd go with
1) Wiseco/Endyn or Toda pistons (if they fit)
2) Forged rods (a forged rod is a forged rod IMO)
3) Knife-edged and balanced crank
4) Fully balanced rotating assembly with ATS carbon clutch and flywheel
5) ATS LSD

 

240whp! You wish. I've seen a fully built B20 setup hit around 230 with 100octain. Hitting that type of number will require a crazy setup, more then most could do. One of the fastest N/A cars I've seen hits around 240-250whp with reving to 10k on a fully built race setup with full race race.
A practical N/A build thats a B20 setup will hit around 210-220whp on normal gas. Sorry

 

Umm..the new CRv motors are going to be a totoally new platform for the B Series..they will spin the "other"way like the new RSX's.

 

perhaps a
b20 with 86mm sleeves
86mm endyn pistons 12.0++ compression
eagle rods
JUN3's valvetrain
$$$Port and polish$$$
Hytech header
2.5 full exhaust
Custom intake manifold
Hondata
9500 redline
Tuning

check out that new rod thats coming out. them ultra lite ones

Lips making madd power like that, wouldn't it be more power if u used a b20 block?
but not as reliable eh?




[Modified by bommiE, 6:00 PM 10/15/2001]

 

Why would you use a B20 blcok and resleeve it to 86mm when you cna use a B18B block resleeved to 86mm? Is teh same stroke..so it would be the same motor in the end.

 

Oh...my bad.

 

Just Buy LIP's Car

 

Hmm.. I don't know about you guys but 86mm bore for a STREET car would probably be pushing it.. For a race car, that's another story.. but you might have some problems getting it to seal, even after o-ringing the block. I say get a b20b block and stick with 84 or 84.5mm pistons. The cylinder walls get pretty thin with an 86mm bore.. Just a thought..

-Mike

 

It would make a LOT of sense. But of course you probably don't need to get a B20Z a B20B would do. A little cheaper. Instead, buy some nice HC pistons around 12.3:1 from Wiseco or whatever company. You won't be able to use CTR pistons in the B20 block. Just isn't the right bore.

Oil squirters isn't a big concern. You can put them in or not. But 240hp is pushing the enveloppe. You need a lot of parts for that. I hope you have a big enough budget because it's going to be a lot in bolt-ons...

 

"I hope you have a big enough budget because it's going to be a lot in bolt-ons... "

Its gonna be a lot more then bolt ons to make that power. Your talking major machine woek to the engine along with the perfect bolt-ons.
Heck even the best high dollar tube frame N/A drag racers (Eriks racing SoCal) only get like 240-250whp off of 100+ octaine, 10k rpms, and crazy engine work with a budget that we would all dream of.

The normal B20 builds that are street prepaired are like 210-220whp with around 150-160trq. Still not bad though!

 

Its all about displacment if you wanna go all motor. All much as people want to think its not..theyre just kidding themselves.

Not sure how long this setup would last..but if you took a B18A/B block and sleeve it to 86mm and use a crank from an older Prelude. The R/S Ratio would SUCK...but you would have a 2207cc engine! (Or maybe resleeve the old Prelude engine - B20A5) Sleeved, forged rods and a beefy girdle might be able to last for a while.

Or..you can take a H23 and sleeve it to 90mm...2417cc! Holy ****..imagine the power!

 

Um, I think you should relsleeve your C5 block, eagle rods, 84.5mm endyn's about 12.5 compression, and go from there...well i guess i'm a lil biassed, but oh well...oh yeah, and learn from NAb20C5's mistakes...

 

what mistakes would that be ???

 

I agree with NAB20C5

 

Well, w/ that high of compression, I ran into the problems of not pinging, but the heat generated from my open header caused my the gas in my gas tank to heat up and basically "boil" the gas and w/ that high of compression...made the car run like crap...also, there really isn't a head gasket made by honda for that bore size on a vtec block, so what you have to do is either get a custom one made, of course i like to stay OEM, or get a b20 gasket, port the dowl pins on the opposite side, due to the fact that non vtec motors pins are on the other side...so what your going to have to do, which i'm going to be in the process of doing it retapping the oil for the vtec solinoid, like your doing an LS/Vtec...b/c on the B20 gasket there is a lack of gasket for the oil sending to the vtec solinoid for the vtec activation...hmm what else...i guess that's about it...also, claying your head would be good too, b/c i had to redo the valve reliefs on the pistons, prior to install...which is smart specially if your goin to run toda cams like my self, where pistons to valve clearance can be an issue, Eric