Got my AP race bar in..had a little bit of difficulty, see post herehttps://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=782027

posting this up so smit/chris/mstewar can make sure I did it correctly

ph0t0z







more pics to come later.. as soon as this ish stops




Putting this pic up for ChrisN



This is looking toward the passenger side of the car.. the caulk is the stuff parallel to the part that rises up for the seat. If you need better pics lemme know.


Modified by DsR at 1:09 PM 3/1/2004


Modified by DsR at 1:09 PM 3/1/2004

 

wow, that is a lot of snow!

Car looks great. must be rough doing stuff to the car in those conditions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoon Spec EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow, that is a lot of snow!

Car looks great. must be rough doing stuff to the car in those conditions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's ok.. Garage+Propane heater= yesterday was actually pretty warm.

I'm just not pulling the R out of the garage to get better pics until this crap melts.

 

we-todd is down right now, but when i saw your pictures earlier, isn't your harness suppose to be on the bar above the one you have it currently installed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we-todd is down right now, but when i saw your pictures earlier, isn't your harness suppose to be on the bar above the one you have it currently installed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope, that bar is the helmet restraint bar for a HANS system AFAIK. It's not even round, its more of a square piece bent to fit.

The bar below it that goes the entire width of the rollbar is the harness bar.

 

oh ok. i have a picture on my computer of somebody's R with a AP rollbar that mounted their harness to that bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh ok. i have a picture on my computer of somebody's R with a AP rollbar that mounted their harness to that bar. </TD></TR></TABLE>

hrm.. not a good idea AFAIK..

The bar could potentially cut the harness I would assume.

When WTDR is back up Ill get a better pic.

 

Sweet, I'm looking forward to seeing pics

 

Ditto...

 

nice setup with the rollbar and sits looking forward to seeing more pics

 

Out of curiousity, do you know what grade the hardware (bolts, nuts, washers) are? The only reason I ask is that I thought Grade 5 was the minimum for safety stuff, and I thought that it was a darker color. I could be completely wrong on that, and it may not even matter, but just an observation. Otherwise, looks good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Out of curiousity, do you know what grade the hardware (bolts, nuts, washers) are? The only reason I ask is that I thought Grade 5 was the minimum for safety stuff, and I thought that it was a darker color. I could be completely wrong on that, and it may not even matter, but just an observation. Otherwise, looks good </TD></TR></TABLE>

seems like I remember Grade 8 was min.. but I could be wrong.

Isn't there a marking on the bolt that specifies?

 

Yeah, on the head of the bolt there should be little dash marks in a pattern. Grade 8 should have 6 dashes and some letters in the center I believe, and Grade 5 would have 3 dashes (I think). If Grade 8 is minimum, that's even more curious, as all the Grade 8 stuff I've seen (granted, I'm certainly not the most experienced with it) has been a sort of goldish color, definitely not silver. I'll try to take some pics of my bolt heads, as I know they are Grade 8.

 

Hi,

Grade 5's have 3 radial lines and have a minimum yield strength of 92,000; while grade 8's have a minimum yield strength of 130,000 (among tons of other spec's).

The other markings on the heads usually are an abreviation for identification of the manufacturer.

The 'color' of the fastener is usually some form of anti-corrosive coating. Usually a zinc plating of some sort which is either silver or gold looking.

John

 

everything looks fine to me, as long as you looped your harnesses properly.. chris and smitdog will be able to tell for sure as well..

http://www.sparcousa.com/Harnesses_beltlooping.pdf

have fun drilling through your floorboards?

those corbeau forza's, or a different model?


Modified by mstewar at 1:21 PM 3/1/2004

 

Thanks Racebrewer, I did forget about the zinc coating. Just check the markings on the bolt heads, DsR.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
have fun drilling through your floorboards?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Metal shavings in the hand are great!

I still need to mount the 2 lap harnesses, anyone know where to pick up some reinforcing plates? I was thinking soloracer.com unless anyone else know's a better site.

Also, I checked out the bolts again.. they appear to be Grade 5 according the the clues given earlier.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
those corbeau forza's, or a different model?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The driver is a Forza, Passenger is an A4.. I'm about to put that in the Lude and pick up another Forza though.

 

Yeah, just have someone make sure you've got the harnesses looped properly (through the buckle, doubleed back, and then trippled on the tail end...that's a terrible description. you gotta see it.)

I think the ones that came with my AP were grade 5 hardware, grade 8 have a higher rating but are also more brittle, some deformity is desired in a heavy hit (pretty sure that's the reason, it's what i was told anyway.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GRM Scott &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, just have someone make sure you've got the harnesses looped properly (through the buckle, doubleed back, and then trippled on the tail end...that's a terrible description. you gotta see it.)

I think the ones that came with my AP were grade 5 hardware, grade 8 have a higher rating but are also more brittle, some deformity is desired in a heavy hit (pretty sure that's the reason, it's what i was told anyway.)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Harness is looped right AFAIK, followed my instructions that came w/the harness.

The Grade 5 makes sense now.. better to bend than break I suppose.

btw thanks for the write up Scott helped me out a ton

 

This is an actual question, not a criticism: the specified limits of the different grades, are they measuring the amount of force the bolt can withstand before breaking or bending? Or something altogether different? If the Grade 8 bolt breaks in half before it'll bend, that's pretty damn worthless. In addition to that, is there any way to estimate/measure the forces that would be placed on the bolts in the event of a collision or rollover? For example, if the Grade 8's have a yield strength of 130,000 (whatever exactly that converts to in units), but the force exerted on the bolt can't ever excede 100,000 (units), then Grade 8 should definitely be strong enough/acceptable. Thoughts? Sorry to be thread-jacking this, DsR, but I've also semi-recently put in a rollbar, just trying to make sure everything is safe.

 

I'm no expert on this, but I would guess that the higher grades have a higher threshold, but tend to snap and not break.. kinda like mild steel vs chromoly tubing on piping.. i could of course be totally speaking out of my *** on this though.. I'm just hazarding a guess..

Dsr, how do you like the forza? I was considering ordering a pair for my jelopy..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dsr, how do you like the forza? I was considering ordering a pair for my jelopy..</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's ok.. It's cheap, light.. Thats about it. Corner holding is sufficient. Eventhough it doesn't not recline it's not like you are sitting straight up, it has a pretty comfy feel to it.

Build quality is *ok*. But I guess you get what you pay for (eventhough these were free..)

IMO it's made for smaller peeps though. But it's definitely not *JDM sized* ie Buddy Club etc. I'm about 5'6" 145lbs, and I wish it was a bit more snug.

I'm pretty sure it could accommodate a larger person fine, just not a much larger person..Of couse they make the Forza II as well.

Here are some dims from the Forza-it fits up to 38" waist. (I'm about 31-32)



Dims for the Forza II fits up to a 44" waist.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm no expert on this, but I would guess that the higher grades have a higher threshold, but tend to snap and not break.. kinda like mild steel vs chromoly tubing on piping.. i could of course be totally speaking out of my *** on this though.. I'm just hazarding a guess..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

My feelings as well.. To reach the higher threshold the metal probobly sees more tempering and other heat treatments.. When you heat treat a metal It makes it more *brittle*. Usually tempering is applied to counteract this issue, but I don't think the metal really ever reaches it's original malleability(sp?). I'm going to ask my Physics prof tommorow and possibly some MET prof's to see if they have any ideas on the principle behind it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Sorry to be thread-jacking this, DsR, but I've also semi-recently put in a rollbar, just trying to make sure everything is safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't sweat man.. I'm sure we are all talented enough to handle more than one topic. I'm curious as well.

 

Found this, some good info here.

http://www.americanfastener.com/techref/grade.htm

Grade 5.. just as described
'

Proof Load (psi)= 74,000-85,000
Yield Strength Min (psi)= 81,000-92,000
Tensile Strength Min (psi)= 105,000-120,000


Medium Carbon Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered

Grade 8...


Proof Load (psi)= 120,000
Yield Strength Min (psi)= 130,000
Tensile Strength Min (psi)= 150,000

Medium Carbon Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered

Apparently they are made by the same processes, but the temperature and duration they are *cooked* (tempered/heat treated) can change the properties of the metal, and it doesn't state that.

I would expect the Grade 8 to have less tensile strength if it was more brittle..but it doesn't. Just looking @the figures the Grade 5 looks to accomplish the same job(in the tensile dept.) but is probobly much less expensive.

Now you just need to find out if an impact would ever surpass the tensile strength of the metal.

You could check this out as well..
http://www.fera.org.uk/



Modified by DsR at 9:22 AM 3/2/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would expect the Grade 8 to have less tensile strength if it was more brittle..</TD></TR></TABLE>

The stronger you make the metal, generally the more brittle it becomes.

So it could have a higher yeild strength, but will have very little plastic deformation before the material fails. One of the reasons you dont see composite wheels.. well, anymore.

RJ