I am new to these forums. I currently own a 97 Toyota Corolla, and am a member of http://www.vvti.net forums. This April, I'm going to be looking to buy a "new" used car. I want to buy one at least 2000 or up, and at a dealership. I've had in mind buying an integra, and before I make a purchase, I would like some advice from people who use them.

When I go to college next year, I'm going to be in Atlanta, Georgia at GATech, and my car will be coming with me (just a little background info).


Anyway, I am looking for a M/T Integra. I wanted to get a Type-R. Is this a good idea? How does it compare to the GSR?
How easy/difficult is it to find a Type-R at a used car dealership?
What are the average prices for a GSR or Type-R of year 2000 or newer?


Thanks in advance for your help

 

If you leave it out it will get stolen. If you have no garage and will be living in a highly trafficed neighborhood it will get stolen. If you can deal with that and can pay for it then get it.

 

would a GSR get stolen?

 

no, nobody wants a slow *** GSR

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would a GSR get stolen?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As likely to be stolen as a Hype R.

Thieves don't discriminate when it comes to VTAK B series engines.

Edit - Hell, wait till after June and buy mine.

 

Im not quite understanding you guys. Doesn't sound like you guys suggest buying an integra.

Suggestions please.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would a GSR get stolen?</TD></TR></TABLE>
My friends Champ White GSR got stolen in front of his GF's house last night. You tell me.

Any honda/acura is a risk as long as there parts are in demand.

 

Decide a good time to waste 4-5 hours of your life, and go online and start searching old posts.... There is so much you can learn....

So search so you can;t first find out the differences between the 2 cars. The type-r and the GS-R.

Here is some info

INTEGRA TYPE R
Honda's True "Tuner Car"
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does Honda choose to tune the R by hand?
Japan's automobile makers are famous for using their experience and knowledge gained in the racing field and making use of it in their production lines for street cars. Well, the sad truth is that most of the time, such things are thrown around as hype -- most automobile makers will make a car "inspired" by racing, but they don't actually employ racing technology, and automobile makers never really "fully tune" their cars. However the Integra Type R is not so. Its racing spirit is not that of image, but is in its generous use of racing technology. The Type R is a car that comes fully tuned straight from the manufacturer.

In order to increase compression ratio, the side molds of the pistons were increased. (Pent-Roof-type Piston) The inside was shaved to balance out the total weight, and the aluminum pistons were forged in order to retain precision.


Though the easiest way to increase horsepower is by increasing displacement or installing a turbo, Honda has made its reputation by sticking to its NA engines. The Integra's VTEC B18C type engine retained its stock displacement, but Honda increased its horsepower from 180 to 200. It's only *20* horses more, but those 20 horses were really tweaked out using Honda's formula 1 knowledge -- from an engine that was already getting 100 horsepower per liter. Fumiyasu Suga, Type R's assistant chief engineer, was kind enough to sit down with us.
Currently, production line engines and engine parts are made by computer-guided NCR machines, and are of very high quality. However, Mr. Suga believes that in order to make a true race engine, some parts must be built/assembled by hand. In specific, the assembling of the engine, balancing parts, and porting and polishing need to be done by hand. Amazingly, all Type R engines are built this way.

Custom-made connecting rods for the Type R. It is made to withstand the higher rpm's, and is still lighter than the stock parts. These Type R parts are made with such precision that the weight difference between all four rods is so small that it is negligible.


Naturally, porting and polishing excessively won't yield good results -- it will only upset the balance between displacement and peak rpm's. Some basic physics explained... In any cylindrical enclosure/piping, the closer air is to the metal wall, it will flow slower, and the closer it is to the center of the cylinder, it will flow faster. As rpm's increase, slight variations in the enclosure will cause for serious air flow disturbances. Logically speaking, a straight, cylindrical port would prevent any problems of air-flow disturbance, but with street cars and their limited engine bay space, the port has to be bent. The stock port is built to within such precision that it can already withstand rpm's of up to 7,000 rpm without creating any unwanted air-flow disturbances, but once it reaches 8,500 rpm, the engine struggles to keep the air flowing smoothly. To augment this problem, two of the best mechanics at Honda were selected and assigned to manually port and polish the engine components. Though this limits production to 25 engines a day, this allows for the engine to reach 8,500 rpm, and respectively, 200 horsepower. For those of us who want to port and polish our GS-R engine parts, unfortunately, Honda would not disclose to us the details of this procedure.


The piston skirt was made lighter in order to lessen the inertial mass. Since lightening the piston causes the piston "neck" to rock back and forth, a molybdenum coating was applied to lessen friction.


Next, the valves and the valve springs needed to be upgraded in order to be able to withstand the high rpm's and the increased fuel injection. In order to increase air flow efficiency, the angle of the valve seat opening was tightened from 60 to 45 degrees. Also, bigger and lighter valves help to deliver more fuel. Instead of making the valve bigger, Honda engineers made the cone bigger and reduced the stem radius even further. In specific, the underside of the valve cone was shaved to its limit, and the valve shaft width was decreased from 5.5mm to 4.6mm -- making the valve 12% lighter than stock. Amazingly, the valves are made so precisely that their static balance differential is basically 0.0. We jokingly asked Mr. Suga what he would do if Honda's parts manufacturers sent over valves that had weight differences. His reply was quick and simple. "We would toss them out." Hm... very strict. Past 8,000 rpm, other valve-related problems occur. Such problems include surging, jumping, bouncing, etc... In order to prevent such problems, the valve springs are made by dual-bound springs. Furthermore, Honda used non-cylindrical, "flat" springs in order to keep the spring height near-stock, and still increase rebounding power.


Injectors installed on the underside of the pistons allow for improved cooling, and prevent the pistons from getting "burned-in".


The camshaft lift amount was changed for both intake and exhaust valves. The intake lift was increased from 10.6mm to 11.5mm, and the exhaust lift was increased from 9.4mm to 10.5mm. To compensate, the intake opening timing was increased from 10 to 15 degrees before piston apex, and closing timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees after the piston reaching base. Likewise, the exhaust opening timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees before the piston reaching base, and the closing timing was increased from 7 to 10 degrees after piston apex. By doing so, the valves remain open longer -- allowing for more air to enter the combustion chamber.


Unlike the base crankshaft, additional balancing weights were added on number 1 and 4, and allows for smooth, high-rpm revving -- making it a 8-weight, fully-balanced crankshaft.
The attachment point of the connecting rods to the crankshaft uses a new, adjustable connector that allows the mechanics to manually adjust the connection using a micrometer so they can compensate for the stretching of the connecting rod bolt.

One of the keys to tuning a NA engine is the piston. In order to increase the compression ratio, aluminum, pent-roof-type pistons were used. In order to keep a good precision of mass, the aluminum pistons were forged. The piston ring was given more space to move around in, and to prevent piston "head" shake caused by the extra space, a molybdenum coating (also used in the NSX) was applied to lessen friction. The con rods are specially made for the Type R, and have a neat, little letter "R" molded onto it. The precision weight of these con rods are 2 levels above that of on-line production models. The weight differential between all four rods is so small that it is negligible, and all contacting surface areas are finished off with a race-car, mirror finish, and is connected to a fully balanced crankshaft. Furthermore, the assembly of the con rods and the crankshaft play an important role in attaining the high rpm's. In order to ensure perfect assembly, the engine is taken off-line and these parts are assembled by hand. A custom con rod micrometer gauge is used, and the stretching of the con rod bolt is taken into account for as the connections are tightened. This is something no machine can do, and this ensures that there aren't any unwanted vibrations at high rpm.


The dual-port intake manifold was "simplified" to a single-port -- allowing the torque curve peak to be at an unusually high 7,500 rpm. Very unusual indeed, but compliments the horsepower curve peak at 8,000 rpm.


In order to prevent engine knocking at high rpm's, NGK's high-spark #7 platinums are used. Honda is so meticulous with its Type R production that it actually coats the spark plug tip with silicone so the spark plug doesn't collect any unwanted deposits during the stop-and-go of transportation. (Wow... does that help any?)


Two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polish the manifolds by hand in order to create a high-rpm engine. Due to the manual process, only 25 engines a day can be created. Our sources have confirmed that their are now 5 mechanics working full time on port and polish. Ed.


The intake port was simplified from a dual-port to a single-port -- in hopes of making high-speed air flow better. The stock exhaust piping that varied in width from 48.6mm~50.8mm was upgraded to a full piping with 57.2mm width all the way. Furthermore, the fully stainless-steel header a-pipe employs a 4-2-1 design, but with no sharp edges in the A-pipe when going from 2 to 1. This is a feature that is said to be impossible to do in mass-production.


The valve springs are not cylindrical, but flat -- and made of dual-bound springs. This prevents the surging effect at high rpm's, and avoids any interference with the pistons. The cut-off area of the springs are done with the most extreme care.
Bigger valves have their advantages, but are heavier. The Type R's valves were redesigned so as to have a bigger cone area, but still be 12% lighter.

In overview, over 60 engine-related parts were changed or entirely re-designed for the Type R. We asked Mr. Suga for any other advice on tuning the Type R any further. He replied, "I would prefer that people don't try to further tune the Type R. No, actually, they shouldn't try. Each upgraded part works in perfect harmony, and fiddling with the factory setting will only lead to a decrease in performance." It's probably safe to say that the Type R is a rare, "fully tuned" and "stock" automobile.


In order to make exhaust air flow smoother, there are no sharp angles in the header. Furthermore, in order to lighten/strengthen the parts, stainless steel was used.
Impossible to do in mass-production, all exhaust piping is welded together with no sharp edges throughout. Also, the piping was upgraded to 57.2mm throughout to increase air flow.
The muffler is a multi-chamber design, and does a wonderful job of dissipating sound. However, the funnel-shaped piping in-between the chambers makes it a very free-flowing exhaust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Integra Type R Specs
Bore/Stroke Stock
Displacement Stock
Compression Ratio 11.1
Valve Width See above
Plugs #7 Platinum
Throttle Body 62mm (+ 2mm of stock)
Intake Manifold Single Port
Air Intake Width 70mm (+ 5mm of stock)
Exhaust Piping 57.2mm (+6.4mm~8.6mm of stock)
Tail Pipe Width 76mm (+25.2mm of stock)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Gain (compared to GS-R)
Stiffer Suspension/High-grip tires +5.500kg
LSD +1.500kg
Performance Rod & Aluminum Make +3.440kg
Body Stiffening Metal Sheets +1.711kg
Strengthening Wheel Bolts & Bearings +0.704kg
Strengthening Tailgate Area +0.313kg
Stiffer Rubber Exhaust Piping Mounts +0.140kg
Recaro Seats +6.647kg
Front Spoiler +1.034kg
Rear Spoiler +2.900kg
Miscellaneous +1.160kg

Total Increase: +25.049kg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Reduction (compared to GS-R)
Lighten Flywheel -0.750kg
Lighter Engine, Exhaust Pipings -3.329kg
Aluminum Radiator -1.350kg
Compact Battery -3.000kg
Lighter Aluminum Wheels -5.200kg
Floor Sheetmetal Removed -10.665kg
Dashboard Insulator Removed -3.869kg
Fuel Tank Wave Absorber Removed -0.450kg
Floor Heat Panel Removed -0.272kg
Resin Spare Tire Lid -0.997kg
Aluminum Left-Side "Stopper Bracket" -1.300kg
MOMO Small-Radius Steering Wheel -0.700kg
Rear Wiper Removal -1.851kg
Car Stereo & Antenna Removal (optional) -5.665kg
Air Conditioner Removal (optional) -18.700kg
Miscellaneous -6.919kg

Total Decrease: -65.017kg
Best 1/4 E.T.: 14.66 "Bone" stock.

 

well, i read the whole thing, and i have to admit that i didn't quite understand all of it (i'm a n00b to car tuning). I had a good idea of what was said, but not everything was clear.

Anyway, I'll make sure to read up on it, however, for now i would like some personal opinions if possible.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would a GSR get stolen?</TD></TR></TABLE>
any freaking integra would get stolen

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not quite understanding you guys. Doesn't sound like you guys suggest buying an integra.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you plan on leaving it outside all the time in a open parking lot, then no its a bad choice.

Depending where you are, the GSR may not be a good choice either.

 

Opie will take you under his wing and show you the ropes . He'll also show you his three minutes to fame in "The real Cancun".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Anyway, I am looking for a M/T Integra. I wanted to get a Type-R. Is this a good idea? How does it compare to the GSR?
How easy/difficult is it to find a Type-R at a used car dealership?
What are the average prices for a GSR or Type-R of year 2000 or newer?


Thanks in advance for your help </TD></TR></TABLE>

The Type-R is a great car, but rare and difficult to find. This is one of the most highly sought out integras, especially for theives. The GS-R is a great car too, but not as fast as the Type-R. The GS-R will be easier to find, and cost less the Type-R. This was the most sought out Integra before the Type-R came out in 1997. I wouldn't recommend you getting one if your paraniod about theives. Do a search about stolen Integras in this forum, and you'll see how often they get stolen. I have a GS-R and had to buy another car as a beater, just because of the high theft rate of the Integra. As far as how much they go for, it will depend on condition, mileage, location, etc. Go here http://www.kbb.com and it will tell you how much these cars are going for. Hope this helps...

 

It depends on how you take care of the car I guess..

I would personally recommand you get a garaged apt when you goto GAtech...

Or go search those accounting for '97, '98, '00, '01 ITR owners that are in GA and ask them how to take care of the car...

Just remember one thing, if the car is well known in that city, it has greater chance of getting stolen... The first two or three years we had the R, a lot of people asked us if that's factory spec or self modify... When we told them that it's factory spec, a lot of people said they never see that kind of car in Acura dealer and going to check out when they got time.. But we never tell them it's a limit production car...

But as nearly 7 years passed by, most of the people knows the ITR is one of the best 4 cylinders car on the market now... With some modification, it can keep up with stock WRX or even EVO if u see that small video clip somewhere in the forum(I was amazed how a FF ITR with some modification can keep up with the AWD EVO)

Or if you can handle all the stress from having a ITR parking on the street, then you are good to go..

A normal Integra won't get stolen that easily.. A modified Integra will.... If you buy a normal integra, I would think to keep the outside dirty and keep the inside clean.. maybe get a window tint too..


Modified by HondaMugenTypeR at 2:26 PM 2/17/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaMugenTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Or go search those accounting for '97, '98, '00, '01, '02 ITR owners that are in GA and ask them how to take care of the car... </TD></TR></TABLE>

'02? I didn't know DC5Rs were sold here in the US.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

'02? I didn't know DC5Rs were sold here in the US. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hehe.. sorry sorry.. typo.. was typing while watching TV

 

if you're going to college, get a beater! even if you have a garage at your apartment, many thieves will break into other cars and steal the garage openers. happens all the time unfortunately.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you're going to college, get a beater! even if you have a garage at your apartment, many thieves will break into other cars and steal the garage openers. happens all the time unfortunately. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes. happened to me. I told the management about it, hoping that they would change the garage opener so the stolen remotes wouldn't work... no luck.

 

why is it that an integra seems to be more stolen than other types of cars (at least that's how it sounds from you guys). i def. dont want to get some crap car, or beater. I dont see what the difference would be if i got the integra or any other nice car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why is it that an integra seems to be more stolen than other types of cars (at least that's how it sounds from you guys). i def. dont want to get some crap car, or beater. I dont see what the difference would be if i got the integra or any other nice car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm in the same boat as you. ITR (only car) and going off to college with no garage. If I didn't take the ITR with me, it would never get driven.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want to buy one at least 2000 or up, and at a dealership.

How easy/difficult is it to find a Type-R at a used car dealership?

What are the average prices for a GSR or Type-R of year 2000 or newer?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't plan on finding too many in dealerships. And when you do, expect to pay dearly for one. There are some dealerships that sell them now for as much as the sticker price when they were new. If you do some research and look around, then you should be able to find a good deal on one. If financing is the reason you want to go through a dealership, then I'd also reconsider. I got a loan that payed for about 85% of the total vehicle price without having to look very hard. It's all in how much research you do. You should be able to find a good clean title ITR for somewhere around $16000 to $18000 if you look.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why is it that an integra seems to be more stolen than other types of cars (at least that's how it sounds from you guys). i def. dont want to get some crap car, or beater. I dont see what the difference would be if i got the integra or any other nice car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The engine and associated drivetrain from the Integra offers great performance and will pretty much bolt in to just about any Honda Civic on the road. There are also other interchangable items such as the seats, and the wheels that thieves look for. Due to the state of the vehicle aftermarket in the United States, the Integra is a rolling bank account for any thief.

In the case of the ITR, the engine is much more powerful, the suspension is also a great upgrade for any other Civic or Integra, and the complete interior can be installed in another Integra for the Type R look. Also, the rear wing and front lip spoiler are commonly stolen as are the red emblems. In the case of the rolling bank account, the ITR is easily worth three or four times more.

 

My advice, don't! If you don't know the capabilities of the ITR not to mention the theft rate, then it's not for you, unless money is a total non-issue, which it's not for 99% of ITR owners. Not trying to be a jerk or anything. If you are going to live on a big campus (ACC! yeah) it is definately a terrible idea. When I was at school at NC State there was a 98 ITR parked right near our only major gym. It was pretty funny, in a bad way of course, when I saw him by it standing next to a campus cop and went to meet him, only to find out he was filing a police report for the recent vadalism the night before (badge ripped off & scratches from hell).

 

Heres my take/advice for you. First, bringing an ITR to college can be a nightmare for most. Most likely you are gonna have to park the car in large parking lots, which at practically all colleges ive been to, have major vandalism/theft problems. We all know how college kids are, and they dont really give a damn about other people's property... ive known about a dozen friends who have normal everyday beaters that get dinged, broken into, even egged... and these cars attract little to no attention to the normal person. When you talk about a possibly bright phairy yellow large spoilered honda, the attention factor goes through the roof, also accounting that practically every part on the car can be taken and transplanted into a civic or integra chassis, you can understand why its one of the most stolen cars around. If you are looking for something nice and fairly new, id suggest a GSR or RSX instead, which are both great cars in their own right.

 

integras get stolen alot because it's soooo easy to swap a motor into a civic. any "punk" kid or adult can afford a used civic hatch for about 3000 bux and put a stolen motor in it. hey, if it's going to be stolen....might as well steal the best and put an itr motor into it. as far as buying an itr from the dealership, it may not be a very good idea. most dealerships will rape you on the cost of an itr. you will get a better deal buying from a private party. for a used 00-01, look to spend between 17k and 18k. from a dealership, look to spend about 20k and up. the itr is an excellent car but be prepared for the hassles of owning one. think of it like owning an 18k ferrari.