(I basically posted this word for word on the Superhonda board as well... so any who recognizes(sp?) it please bare with me!........this board is 100x better anyways!)

Need opinions on which are better headers... Im looking for more Top End power... to be used with Future Toda Spec B or C cams...

Now heres what i dont get, somebody correct me if im wrong...
I could imagine, Toda created thier headers to work best with thier cams..specifically the SPEC C's (being thier most agressive).. but the design of the toda headers are the same old 4-2-1 much like the 4-2-1 Mugen, and basically USDM ITR header (minus the piping diameter) .. now I know this design gives more mid range power, rather than top end (like Mugen 4-1, or the Spoon hybrid 4-2-1).. but if they were made with Spec Cs or even Bs in mind... With all the top end power those cams make.. why use the 4-2-1 setup?. .. Now i havnt rode in a ITR running toda headers, nor have i seen straight dyno comparasons between the spoon and todas.. thats why im asking this... any info/opinions would be greatly appreciated!! thanks in advance!

 

BTW, I did a search, and theres never a straight answer

 

i believe the 4-2-1 is utilized to make up for midrange power loss yet still gaining power up top. From what all the talk goes i think the Spoon header makes a low blow to the Toda headers and wins round one.

 

Is it just me, or do the Toda headers look like they have better build quality than the Spoons?. I really dig the spoon design though

 

if you want top end then go with the spoon 4-1 , thats what the design is for .while the 4-2-1 header is mainly for mid range .

 

I guess no one has ever run both the Spoon and the TODA header in their car yet, so it will be difficult to get an answer here on which one is better!! I think the TODA Si has tried both JDM Mugen and the TODA header, and it seem like the TODA one give a little bit more mid-range power.

I personally have the Spoon header with TODA SpecB, and I am happy with the top end the engine has now.

 

hmm from what i've heard Toda cams arent meant for all out top end power, more of a nice beefy midrange for circuit/road racing... wich could explain the 4-2-1 design of the header?

 

aren't the primaries really large on Toda's 4-2-1 header evidenced that Toda acknowledges just how much exhaust they push out?

The new Spoon header one piece is a 4-2-1 design despite the fact it LOOKS like a 4-1.

I would go with a 4-1 header since the guys running the Spec Cs here run either Mugen 4-1, Hytech, or ported OE JDM 4-1.

 

Mugen

Fu-bot, "Mugen"

 

yup....hitech

 

The primaries on the Toda header are not as large as they look, I'm thinking they were either 43mm or 45mm, but I'm leaning towards 43mm. Maybe DarthVadeR can measure them for us. One thing I notice with his header prior to him installing it was the fact that the collector was double walled but not an anti-reversion chamber like the ITR JDM header so the ID wasn't as large as say the Mugen.

mafay2, can you post any dyno charts for your Spoon and Spec Bs?


[Modified by SMSP, 6:07 AM 10/9/2001]

 

obviously the HiTech header does BOTH, I've compared them, the Toda does make more midrange than the Spoon.

Greg

 

I dunno about the toda header but my spoon header gives me some nice power all around. Especially on the high end. IMHO

 

We can argue with words all day, post up dyno graphs for the real anwsers.

 

Now im just wondering how much more high end power the Spoon Makes over Todas.. What about Spoon VS Mugen 4-1, in the high end, which makes more power?

 

For me I went with the HyTech...it's not all about HP...the other inportant aspect it's how fast the car accelerates with the particular combination. I have the car setup with a smooth torque curve vs. high HP...there were 5+ HP available up top, but with a loss in the mid-range, which is where I wanted the power. The list of modifications can be found through the link in my signature.

Here is the dyno that I have that compares the JDM itr to the HyTech header, and below is what it correlates to on a DynoJet:



Now what the car looks like on a DynoJet.




[Modified by Austin, 11:03 AM 10/9/2001]

 

Primaries are 45mm
Secondaries are 50mm
and 60mm at the cat.

This all from Toda dealership catolog from Japan.

 

I would get the TODA header if your car is mainly for track race, but if you want more top end power for drag race, go with the Spoon one.

 

I'm slowly getting out of the drag race scene. I'm gonna set up my car for street/highway performance as well as autocross.

I'll still drag race every now and then though, but I once owned the Spoon header, but sold it cuz it hung too low for my comfort. I'm still awaiting the Toda header.

 

I have Toda, Mugen and Spoon headers all in stock if anyone is interested.

 

I was all for Spoon 4-2-1 until reading this topic! Now what? My car is daily driven and road coursed occasionally (1-2 a month). What do you think is probably best?
Toda or Spoon?!? hmm

 

No Dynos, No figures, at least not yet!

But I am very satisfied with my Spoon header. Definate difference with power delivery all through the powerband, from as good as stock to maybe a little better Lows, and defiantely better Mids to absolutely stronger Highs.

No hatin and no opinion on the Toda or anything else other than stock or some DC Sh*t I had.

Good luck and hope you find an answer for all of us,

A.

 

im sligtly leaning toward the Toda Headers now.. in the intrest of science! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!! and I will find out what that truth is! *X files theme playing*

 

The Spoon 4-1 isn't really a 4-1...it is actually called the Spoon 4-2-1 Header.

The utilization of the Tri-Y collector gives great mid-range while also giving high end gains.

Projected power gains are at around 10whp on an ITR.

As for HiTech...it might be very good but the length of the down pipe is so long! Exhaust lengths have direct effect on the powerband. Therefore I would think that the Spoon design is pretty maxed out for a stock postition header....




[Modified by AJ PwR, 12:04 AM 10/10/2001]

 

what do you guys reckon about this design
http://www.exhaustdynamics.com.au/billet.html

??