I have a friend thats been working on his setup this winter and he has a 1996 civic w/ a Full-race turbo setup. His car is monsterous and I know that it will be fast and all but then I started thinking; Could a setup like this on a FWD Si like mine w/ a Quaife be better in SM than I currently do now in SM with my basic bolt-ons which include ITR cams, valvetrain, TB, and countless suspension upgrades? I'd love to make my car screw like his will come springtime. I don't think the wheel spin would help me out but I see non-AWD talons/eclipses placeing in that SM class all the time......

 

If on a longer course, then probably yes. If you're already stuck in SM, then more power never hurts. If it's on a tight, small course, then the turbo might never get to spool up in order to be put to good use.

Do you have a well sorted-out suspension and good brakes to round out this killer motor? If so, the thing would probably be a blast at an HPDE.

my worthless $.02

 

a few things:

spool time: self explanitory

throttle modulation: when it DOES spool, how are you going to keep the power in check? I would guess it would be easy to floor it coming out of a corner, stick the corner while it lags, it spools, you understeer like a ****, so you lift a bit, and then weeeeeeeeee...

traction: 200 fwd hp with traction beats 350 fwd Hp without traction. If you have ever *gasp* drag raced a FWD car on street tires that had an overwelming amount of power and limited traction, you will note that you are pretty much side by side until 3rd gear when he starts to hook up...

 

If you want to be competitive in your car in your class, uh, change classes.

If you want to have fun, go for it. More power is fun.

 

I've been running my mildly turbo'ed Integra in SM, and have found that there is such a thing as too much power. In more than a few cases, it has slowed me down because all I get is wheelspin. Once it hooks up, it accelerates really nicely, but at best, I'm only making up the time that I lost due to traction problems.

A large part of my problem is that I still have an open diff. That crap will be put to an end soon, but I really don't think a limited slip is some magical solution that's going to eliminate my traction problems completely. I'm sure it's going to still require a good amount of throttle modulation. It will just hopefully be easier to control.

So, I think the power can be put to good use in most autocross courses, but it can be just as big of a problem too. A road course is where you'll really have fun with it.

 

Thats what I was thinking ; i go with a mild 220-240 whp setup and I think I can control the traction issue and do pretty well. I have done all the upgrades on brakes, exhaust, cooling, engine management, and suspension that I possibly can. I'll be taking an Evolution school in Mayand I know that doing so will be the best modification money you can spend with respect to improving your autocrossing skills (...or lack of in many cases ). I think that with a "mild" FI setup, it will help as long as it's in moderation.

P.S. The only thing that bumped me up a class was the ITR cams and valvetrain I added last summer. I guess I kind of screwed myself considering I'm up against highly modded, turbocharged, eclipses/talons! Not to mention those danm supercharged BMW M3's.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Osokwik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats what I was thinking ; i go with a mild 220-240 whp setup and I think I can control the traction issue and do pretty well. I have done all the upgrades on brakes, exhaust, cooling, engine management, and suspension that I possibly can. I'll be taking an Evolution school in Mayand I know that doing so will be the best modification money you can spend with respect to improving your autocrossing skills (...or lack of in many cases ). I think that with a "mild" FI setup, it will help as long as it's in moderation.

P.S. The only thing that bumped me up a class was the ITR cams and valvetrain I added last summer. I guess I kind of screwed myself considering I'm up against highly modded, turbocharged, eclipses/talons! Not to mention those danm supercharged BMW M3's....... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not build it all motor and liek 200-210 whp? That would be much more responsive than any turbo setup.

 

"full race turbo motors" are lag machines if you mean "full *DRAG* race turbo motors. They're terrible for autocross situations IMO. I don't even like oem turbos for autocross, but I'm a bit of a purest about throttle response.

 

How did you add 50hp from you other post on another board?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"full race turbo motors" are lag machines if you mean "full *DRAG* race turbo motors. They're terrible for autocross situations IMO. I don't even like oem turbos for autocross, but I'm a bit of a purest about throttle response.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Turbos aren't always laggy like that. If you're like every street ricer and get a big *** turbo just to run 6 psi, you'll get good dyno numbers (due to efficiency), but horrible lag. However, if you are like me (ie not a street ricer punk), you'll go to a reputable turbo shop who knows what autocross and road racing are, and have them build a custom turbo for your car, boost level, power goals, and type of racing. My turbo is very low lag, and has no lag if I left foot brake, but I usually don't have anywhere near the traction needed to take advantage of that anyway. Many factory turbo cars have considerably more lag than I do.

Turbos aren't just "if you've seen one, you've seen them all."

 

The difference between the 2 post was based on what he told me he would be running in terms of psi. I just wanted to give an example because he can change/adjust the boost he will be running. The difference between 400-350 hp depends on how much boost(psi/bar) he will be running. Either way it's an a$$ load of power! Sometimes the hp #'s at a given psi being a "dyno queen" is not the same as what psi you'd be running on the street which in turn may = different hp numbers .

 

That "Full Race" setup may or may not have a lot of lag. For anyone who doesn't know, Full Race is now a brand name... They make some of the nicest manifolds on the market and recently they developed a complete turbo kit.

Turbos are getting less "laggy" all the time. Companies have made some major advances lately. Take the Garrett GT28R for example. Combine that with any old B18 and all the power you want is like flipping a switch. Any lack of responsiveness vs. NA is impossible to detect, especially at any reasonable rev range for autox (3500+) Personally, I kinda like the feeling of 200 ft/lbs of torque at 4000 rpm's.

Dunno who said it first but: "I'll have enough HP when I can spin my wheels all the way down the longest straight..."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fsp31 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dunno who said it first but: "I'll have enough HP when I can spin my wheels all the way down the longest straight..." </TD></TR></TABLE>

Mark Donahue said that to an engineer from Porsche, talking about the 917-30 turbo motor. 1200ish HP.

 

I have done it, it ain't that much fun. I have actually done EXACTLY what you are saying, 99 Civic coupe, ~340 WHP. Well, if you find lots of tire smoke and bad times fun, then it might be your thing. Although, I ran faster in a 89 Civic Si, bone stock with R's on the same course as the above car.

 

No.

 

Lets bring this back.......

I am going to be actively autocrossing my car 367whp/279wtq this year.... not expecting to even compete, just learn my car and learn to drive.

Anyone else have experience with a high H.P. fwd car like this in autocross?

(Shameless plug for Sand and Sage Sports Car Club.... Ahem: http://www.ssscc.org ) -Tri-Cities, WA.

 

IMO, that H22 is going to cause more issues than the available power. That's a lot of weight in the front of your car.

I'm sure you have a boost controller on there, so you could turn the boost down to put power delivery somewhere in the mid to high 200's. Power problem solved.

The weight of the H22 alone will probably keep this setup from being a "national caliber" autox car, but who cares. You could still do great at local events, and you probably have a heckuva lot more fun the other 6 days a week than the guy with the 95 whp CSP car that thumped you on Sunday.

 

Just don't be ashamed and disheartened when you get beat by cars that are "stock", been there, seen that..........