Ahh. Just got back from the Camden autox! It was a crazy course.. Everyone got lost around the course at least once.
I finally found my perfect autox setting for the tires and shocks. However, I rode with an instructor in his Mazda Miata with slicks. (I know, that's like comparing apples and oranges). Anyway, the general notion is that slicks will drop your time 1 or 2 seconds. Riding in the miata was amazing. It stuck to the ground and turned at the slightest touch. I'd like to get that same grip in my Type R. The street tires I run now (Pirelli PZero 205/45/16's) don't quite get enough grip. I'm thinking of either A) take off my all seasons from my stock 15" rims and put on slicks for the summer or B) spend the money and buy a nice set of 15" x 7” 8 lb rims and slicks.

Now here are my questions. What will I have to do to tune the car after putting slicks? I know I’ll have to play with the tire pressures, but with the increased grip, will my car still tend to oversteer?
Right now with my shocks on 4 front / 5 rear and the 26 mm rear sway bar, the car tends to oversteer at the limit. Is the secret here to just leave the shocks at 4 f/ 5r and just play with the tire pressure?

 

Are you asking about DOT legal competition tires or true non street legal racing slicks? There is a large difference!


[Modified by DB1-R81, 2:00 PM 10/7/2001]

 

Whatever they will allow in CSP in autoX. These are going to be AutoX only tires, so DOT approved is not an issue. Also, could you recommend a good set of tires for autox? I'm seriously thinking about 15x7 Kosei K1 Racing and whatever tire will give me maximum traction for autox. I might even order them tomorrow!



[Modified by arren123, 2:07 PM 10/7/2001]

 

Only DOT approved tires are allowed in CSP, so by rule you can't run slicks. Popular tires include the Hoosier A or R 3S03, Kumho V700, Toyo RA1, and BFG R1 (in its various forms). They will change how you might set up the car, but each tire is different. Toyo's act much like street tires in general, but with much greater grip. Hoosiers have faster reaction times and even more grip.

There are lots of posts on this subject, hopefully they haven't all been erased. Try a few searches for the larger threads and then come back with more questions.

 

DOT approval is an issue for auto-x because Stock, Street Prepared and Street Mod only allow DOT approved R compound tires (Kumho, V700, Toyo RA-1, Hoosier DOT, etc).

Only Prepared and Modified are allowed true slicks.

The Kosei is a good rim. ALso, don't overlook factory rims from Acura, Mazda, etc. Most are not the lightest available, but from a junkyard are very inexpensive. The Millenia wheels fit and weigh only slighlty more than the Kosei.

Start with a tire like the Kumho V700 or Toyo RA-1. Thy give average traction for a DOT R tire, but good tread wear (will usually last a whole season of autocross). The Hoosiers give more ultimate grip, but are harder to drive and wear very quickly - there is no need to step up to them unless you are making a legit run at a championship. The Toyo needs a bit more heat to stick well than the Kumho, so may be more suitable for circuit racing than autocross (but I've never used them, so wehat I just said is only what I've ben told).

If you will be driving on the tires to and from events, you may want to consider the Yokahoma R tires as they seem to have a more durable tread (but aren't quite as fast because of it).

 

Thanks! I did a search and decided on the V700 victoracer. I'm getting them heat-cycled by tire rack and mounted on the Kosei K1 Racing wheels. I wanted something lighter than a stock wheel but also cheap that is 7" wide.
I originally wanted a 15x7 8 lb wheel but unfortunately, money is an object.

Can't wait to try them out at the next autocross!

 

Hi Jon,
Hmmm.. Thanks.. I haven't ordered them yet.. I was about to, but you are making me think twice.. I was planning to get the victoracers in 205/50/15 for sure.
As for unsprung weight.. How much more weight would i have per wheel with the the victoracers and kosei's stock wheels and stock RE010's ? I'm going to be searching for that post about how much those victoracers weigh, but if you know, please let me know.. thanks

 

Ouch.. I can't afford the SSR's right now.. Maybe I should just wait until I can? Hmm.. That will give me some more time to practice my finess with the street tires.. But ohhh. R compound tires stick so nicely. I think in my best interest, I should hold out and get the best wheel for the money. That way I won't have to buy an extra set of wheels down the line...

I think this was actually an "impulse buy" to buy these.. I think I'll postpone the purchase until I'm thinking with my head on straight.

For now, I guess I'll get those Falken Alzenis when my Pzero's run out of tread. I was going to get them anyway.

Anyone willing to donate to the "Help Arren get the SSR Competitions rims" fund?

 

Arren,

How long have you been autocrossing? I don't mean to sound condescending - I just haven't seen you in here before so my first assumption was that you'd been bitten by the bug fairly recently. The reason I ask is that I typically recommend that most people new to the sport stick with street tires for at least a full season. There's a couple reasons why.

1. The fastest autocrossers I know around here have spent at least that long on street tires.
2. The limit is lower, so if you do get into trouble it's less of a fiasco come time to correct (or put both feet in)
3. They break away gradually - so you get a lot of practice learning what it feels like to have the car understeer, oversteer, or drift.
4. They're cheaper.

If you're experienced - and the definition of "experienced" varies from person to person - the Kumho is what I think you should go with. Yeah they're heavier, and they don't have quite the ultimate grip of a Hoosier, but they last well. And they can, in a pinch, be driven on to and from an event. Hoosiers need a good deal of negative camber too, for what that's worth - at least 2 degrees.

As to your wheels...I think the Koseis would serve you very well. They're still pretty damn light and a lot cheaper. If autocrossing is your goal, you'll need something really light and wide IMO, like a Keizer or a Panasport. Now you're talking about real dollars. Mike Neary, who won a trophy at Nationals this year in a DSP GS-R, runs I think 13x8 or 13x9 wheels with autocross compound Hoosiers. And he's stinking fast.

 

Almost forgot - Brett at soloracer.com sometimes has some used stuff for sale. Right now he's got some 98 Type R wheels, with some Hoosiers - http://www.soloracer.com/hoosiersonr.html.

 

Hey Krshultz, no offense taken. I usually hang out on the Integra Type R forum, but recently found that this is a good one too! I just completed my 4th autocross and I'm learning fast. I've learned to make smooth inputs with the wheel, gas and brakes, to go slow in - fast out, learned a little bit of left-foot braking today and to look far ahead. I need to keep working at all of these including driving the correct line. I'm going to stay on street tires for at least till another 1/2 season next year. I might even wait until 2003. I just feel that I can take the turns more agressively if I only had more grip from the tires. There were times in the course where I was already at the limit and wished I could accelerate just a bit more. I think I can drop another second or two on my times on street tires, but that would mean that I'd have to do some amazing driving. R compound tires would help me get those lower times a little easier.. But you have a good point.. If I can get to a point wher I can drive amazing on street tires, then I should be able to drive unbelievable on R compound tires.

 

Exactly.

 

Just curious, how long is a "season" for most of you? We have 3 autox seasons throughout the year, with 4 events each in the spring and fall, and 3 events in the summer evening series. We usually get 3 or 4 runs per event. If V700's would only last one season, I don't think many people here would be using them

 

[QUOTE]
As for the Azenis, I think they are the closest thing to an R-compound that money can buy. I haven't driven on them, but that's what I hear from people whose opinions I trust. So, put some Azenis on your stock wheels when your PZero's run out, and save up for SSR/Kumho in the next year or two. Again, just my opinion, but it does make the most sense.

yea I have gone form six or sseven seconds back in class to less than a tenth at my last event and decided that a set of the azenis would be a great auto-x tire, should be getting mine later this week. seventh in raw time and fifth by pax makes me happy but I want more speed

 

10-20 autocrosses, depending on the person (and how willing they are to travel).

I only do local autocrosses, since my primary interest is SCCA Club Racing. I probably do 10-12 high speed events and 10-15 autocrsses a year. In the last year, I've used 2 sets of Kumhos, and will use another set up by December (they were bought used, about 1/2 tread, but will be crunchy and hard before they wear out).

The life expectancy of Kumhos depends greatly on what you expect out of them. They stick best when shaved and cycled and are at max grip for only a few heat cycles. Then they begin to drop off noticeably. I buy them full tread and use up all the rubber - by the time I get to the last bit of tread, the tire is past prime and uncompetitive. Next year, I will start buying shaved/cycled and add a 4th set of tires to my budget for the year.


[Modified by Crack Monkey, 5:57 AM 10/8/2001]

 

Arren,
Contact Mrspeed on this board, he is selling Mazda Millenium wheels. Come out to Englishtown we can talk about setup, etc. etc.

 

I'll be in Englishtown Oct 20th and then Camden on Oct 21st..
Mazda Millenium wheels are only 15x6".. I wanted a 15x7" wheel. I have 205/50/15's on my stock wheels and it doesn't fit very well with the sidewalls sticking out.. I think the 7" rim will fit 205's better and provide better handling in corners.