What is the difference between the obd0 and obd1 distributors? Which way do they spin?

I am contemplating the idea of wiring up a p28 with sensors and harness to run a VW dohc 16v 1.8l engine. It has some pre-obd management (kinda arcane to me) the biggest issue would be the dizzy in my mind.

I don't really know the differences between them but I know that the vw's spins clockwise. EDIT: CLOCKWISE just checked the manual.

Ideally, I would splice into the existing one.
I am going to look into how they work just want some opinions.

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than a stand alone, as I could use uberdata.



Modified by slashDEVslashNULL at 2:32 PM 2/4/2004

 

cool idea man.......theoretically if you could get the distributer stuff figured out you could do it. i dont see why not. what kinda vw is it going into and whats done to the motor......i love/hate vdubs.......my roomate is a dub head.

 

http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=4&i=50&t=50

The GM ECM has undergone similar reverse engineering efforts.
http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/re...&t=78

-PHiZ

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by progger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Left turning ignition 1 3 4 2 altered 1 2 4 3
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If I am understanding this correctly, it doesn't matter which way it spins - so that means I just need to find a way for it to physically attach to the vw. Maybe a little creative machine work (though I have not looked at it yet)
I could just swap plug wires to match the firing order of the vw right?
AFAIK, It fires 1-3-4-2, with 4 being at the passenger side.

redzcstandardhatch, it is a mk2 gti.
Thanks PHiZ

 

we actually have a customer of ours who is doing something similar to this. he had an OBD1 distributor (93 integra) that he had the shaft machined for a sealed bearing and different drive inorder to run all Honda electronics on a 1958 VW Bug . This has been a definite (and slow) work in progress and I will gladly share any info on honda-tech to those interested as we eventually get further into this project. Once we get sensors and system set up, all engine management will be controlled via Hondata. Should be sweet when finished. Now if we could just get customer motivated enough to work on it at a little faster pace...(LOL) this guy has so many different hobbies that it's hard to keep him in one direction.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slashDEVslashNULL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... I could just swap plug wires to match the firing order of the vw right?
AFAIK, It fires 1-3-4-2, with 4 being at the passenger side.

redzcstandardhatch, it is a mk2 gti.
Thanks PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>I used to have a mk-2 Jetta, the engine turns clockwise because it's mounted the other way in the engine bay. The distributor was mounted on the middle of the block, gear driven, I don't remember which way it turns.

The firing order is always 1-3-4-2 for all inline 4-cyl that I know about. But the #1 is ALWAYS at the pulley end, which is on the right side of a VW. #4 is ALWAYS at the flywheel end, to the left side of the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondatim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we actually have a customer of ours who is doing something similar to this. he had an OBD1 distributor (93 integra) that he had the shaft machined for a sealed bearing and different drive inorder to run all Honda electronics on a 1958 VW Bug . This has been a definite (and slow) work in progress and I will gladly share any info on honda-tech to those interested as we eventually get further into this project. Once we get sensors and system set up, all engine management will be controlled via Hondata. Should be sweet when finished. Now if we could just get customer motivated enough to work on it at a little faster pace...(LOL) this guy has so many different hobbies that it's hard to keep him in one direction.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What motor does he have in that bug?

That sounds absolutely retarded to me. Why is he trying to run the standalone on a carb'd car? Does it have fuel injection? If so, why does he feel he needs the standalone?

The beauty of the bug is in its simplicity; it takes so little for it to run, and it does not take hardly anything other than the major internal upgrades and fueling upgrades to make a beast of a motor.

 

it's actually a 2100cc (maybe bigger) that will be turbo'd. he wants to run fuel injection on it and be able to control fuel and boost, hence Hondata. nothing against an old carb'd bug, he just wants something totally different. I think it's a cool idea but yes, a lot of work involved to make it work. Although you would be surprised at the number of bug hobbyists asking him questions in regards to the fuel injection and Hondata. Quite intriguing actually...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondatim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we actually have a customer of ours who is doing something similar to this. he had an OBD1 distributor (93 integra) that he had the shaft machined for a sealed bearing and different drive inorder to run all Honda electronics on a 1958 VW Bug . This has been a definite (and slow) work in progress and I will gladly share any info on honda-tech to those interested as we eventually get further into this project. Once we get sensors and system set up, all engine management will be controlled via Hondata. Should be sweet when finished. Now if we could just get customer motivated enough to work on it at a little faster pace...(LOL) this guy has so many different hobbies that it's hard to keep him in one direction.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would love to get details on the setup (esp the dizzy), feel free to post in my thread

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What motor does he have in that bug?

That sounds absolutely retarded to me. Why is he trying to run the standalone on a carb'd car? Does it have fuel injection? If so, why does he feel he needs the standalone?

The beauty of the bug is in its simplicity; it takes so little for it to run, and it does not take hardly anything other than the major internal upgrades and fueling upgrades to make a beast of a motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That sounds like a retarded comment to me. Speaking from my project, the mk2 gti has a type of fuel injection. It is not like anything on a honda or more modern cars. This project would allow me to run regular fuel injectors, and give me the ability to tune for boost for a SMALL price when compared to buying a standalone. The only other option (other than using a diff. ecu package like gm as phiz mentioned) is using an aic. The aic would not give me the type of control over fueling that I want and would leave timing alone. I guess I could add a btm, but that is already more than the cost of a standalone.

For the cost of making the dizzy work with the engine, to me, it is a much better solution.

I assume that the reasoning behind the bug project is similar.

 

Well that's starting to sound like a nice project then!

I admit the retarded comment was a little harsh; I have always been a fan of the bug's simplicity, and adding the P28 sounded like it would be making the bug's motor something it was never meant to be.

I have always been used to 2332's, 1915's, etc...all carbed and beefed out. Even turbo'd, I've only been around turbo carb bugs.

Is he using one of the fuel injection conversion kits for the bug, or doing a custom system?

 

I don't know anything about the bug setup. You would have ask him about it.
B series engines were never meant to be turboed <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well that's starting to sound like a nice project then!

I admit the retarded comment was a little harsh; I have always been a fan of the bug's simplicity, and adding the P28 sounded like it would be making the bug's motor something it was never meant to be.

I have always been used to 2332's, 1915's, etc...all carbed and beefed out. Even turbo'd, I've only been around turbo carb bugs.

Is he using one of the fuel injection conversion kits for the bug, or doing a custom system?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Now correct me if Im wrong but arent the sensors in the dist. going to be out of sync with each other. the computer wants to see them all in a certain order a certain amount of degrees apart, if you spin it backwards those calculations will be all wrong and shouldnt work. Once your over that hump keep in mind that the computer also see the signals in a certain way like a rising wave which would be a falling wave backward. Spinning the sensor wheel backwards will change that too.

Good Luck

 

thought of a way to do it...

take the VW cam, have 4 holes drilled in it like a wheel bolt pattern... have a short shaft made with a flange on the one end, and the gear off a Civic camshaft on the other end. Have a billet hosing made for the little shaft, so that the Civic dizzy can bolt to the housing. Attach the componenets together. Drill and tap a hole in the housing, so that you can feed it oil from the block, and drain it back into the pan, linda like a turbo setup. If there isn't enough room for all that, get a set of small gears that are like rear differential gears (45 deg angles) so you can mount the dizzy perpenicular to the engine.

 

Read this thread. http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=4&i=50&t=50

It is a honda engine spinning clockwise (opposite of what they were designed to do.)

It doesn't seem to be an issue. (granted they have not spoken of it much) If it works in that situation, it should work for me.

Are you sure about your description on ecu-dizzy interaction?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostn420 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now correct me if Im wrong but arent the sensors in the dist. going to be out of sync with each other. the computer wants to see them all in a certain order a certain amount of degrees apart, if you spin it backwards those calculations will be all wrong and shouldnt work. Once your over that hump keep in mind that the computer also see the signals in a certain way like a rising wave which would be a falling wave backward. Spinning the sensor wheel backwards will change that too.

Good Luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Yes but the Bug is a boxer engine and the GTI the early one anyway has a mechanical CIS fuel injection system and is an inline 4 front wheel drive, not doible in an antique Bug. besides CIS is NOT as tinker friendly as EFI is.

If he was doing a sandrail, then there are a lot of honda engine options.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slashDEVslashNULL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would love to get details on the setup (esp the dizzy), feel free to post in my thread


That sounds like a retarded comment to me. Speaking from my project, the mk2 gti has a type of fuel injection. It is not like anything on a honda or more modern cars. This project would allow me to run regular fuel injectors, and give me the ability to tune for boost for a SMALL price when compared to buying a standalone. The only other option (other than using a diff. ecu package like gm as phiz mentioned) is using an aic. The aic would not give me the type of control over fueling that I want and would leave timing alone. I guess I could add a btm, but that is already more than the cost of a standalone.

For the cost of making the dizzy work with the engine, to me, it is a much better solution.

I assume that the reasoning behind the bug project is similar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

actually, the owner plans on running Honda fuel injection on the car. Everything from the injectors, sensors, distributor, etc.

I know it will be a PITA but once all issues are resolved on system, should be very trouble free. I hope (LOL)

I'll try to keep everyone posted as the project unfolds. Again, if I can get owner motivated long enough(LOL)

 

For the 16V application, my question is does the motor have Bosch K or L Jetronic injection. If I remember correctly, CIS is a mechanical fuel injection system, operating basically off fuel pressure adjustments. I don't see where a P28 would be usable. But, I'll be the first to admit I'm not familiar with the 16V motors.
I would love to learn more about this though, keep us informed.

 

p28, harness, all sensors, + dizzy, modern injectors, fuel rail, fpr, and chuck all that ancient crap away - that is how it will be useful.

I am not integrating the EMSs. I am swapping one for the other.

I will post up as I progress. I need to hit the yard and contact a machine shop friend.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OldSIMan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the 16V application, my question is does the motor have Bosch K or L Jetronic injection. If I remember correctly, CIS is a mechanical fuel injection system, operating basically off fuel pressure adjustments. I don't see where a P28 would be usable. But, I'll be the first to admit I'm not familiar with the 16V motors.
I would love to learn more about this though, keep us informed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

As I stated in PM, flip the TDC and CYP sensor wheels so that they are biased the opposite direction. You might want to take a close look at whether flipping the CRANK wheel will offset the teeth at all - if it does, you will want to reverse that as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As I stated in PM, flip the TDC and CYP sensor wheels so that they are biased the opposite direction. You might want to take a close look at whether flipping the CRANK wheel will offset the teeth at all - if it does, you will want to reverse that as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks
The only issues I have left before I start are power steering leak, horrible whine from water pump pulley, and no ebrake/sticky rear drivers caliper. Should be done within the week.

Anyone know what I should expect to pay at a yard for wiring harness, dizzy, and sensors?

 

The stock 16v dizzy turns counter-clockwise(not clockwise) and the firing order is 1-3-4-2. It's mounted on the driver's side of the head, unlike the 1.8l 8v which is on the block an is run by the intermediate shaft.
Also, if you're gonna run boost, you should lower the CR a bit. The 1.8 has 10:1 CR, which I don't think is safe for anything more than 7-10psi with a good intercooler and good tuning.
It would be easier to just use Digi1 injection(g60), but you'd need a chip for it and you wouldn't be able to tune it yourself.
Oh and I'm suprised no one is talking **** about using a honda ECU on a VW. I guess the trolls don't hang out in the tech section
Anyway, good luck with your project. If you have any questions about 16vs or mk2s, send me an IM. I don't come on here much tho.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHC_16v &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The stock 16v dizzy turns counter-clockwise(not clockwise) and the firing order is 1-3-4-2. It's mounted on the driver's side of the head, unlike the 1.8l 8v which is on the block an is run by the intermediate shaft.
Also, if you're gonna run boost, you should lower the CR a bit. The 1.8 has 10:1 CR, which I don't think is safe for anything more than 7-10psi with a good intercooler and good tuning.
It would be easier to just use Digi1 injection(g60), but you'd need a chip for it and you wouldn't be able to tune it yourself.
Oh and I'm suprised no one is talking **** about using a honda ECU on a VW. I guess the trolls don't hang out in the tech section
Anyway, good luck with your project. If you have any questions about 16vs or mk2s, send me an IM. I don't come on here much tho.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The trolls are in classifieds today. Thanks for the help. The car is having some issues so the project is on hold for now.