Advice for honda challenge build
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Dahlonega, Ga, USA
Advice for honda challenge build
OK, I need some advice from some of you Honda Challenge guys out there. I did some searches but didn't find out exactly what i was looking for so here goes. Let me start from the beginning, I'm a 17 year old Honda enthusiast who wants to get into road racing (honda challenge). I decided that i wanted to start racing about 2 weeks ago when i spun my car (a 91 crx) out on the street and hit 2 trees, it was a total loss. I know, I know speeding on the street doesn't pay but hind sight is always 20/20. Anyhow that brings me to my question. I had bought allot of parts for my CRX but none of them were installed at the time of the crash (I wanted to do the whole car at once), I have a B16 full swap-stock, Konig Heliums-15x6.5, KYB AGX's, Dropzone coilovers, E-bay strut tower brace bars, and fart can-which i was going to get welded on to a crush bent full exhaust at a local muffler shop. I don't know if i should build a car out of what i have, or get rid of it all since i bought the parts for a street car and allot of them are cheap, and i know someone who will buy all my parts for what i have in them. I was thinking a built LS would be cool but i have no idea what is legal and what isn't. I understand that there are several different classes and even though i have yet to get any experience i don't particularly want to start at the lowest class, i do however want a car that is competitive in its class, and doesn't coast more than approx $7,500 total, whats your advice. One more thing, i am now serious about racing now and i wouldn't mind if it winded up being my profession, is Honda challenge a good start or am i headed in the wrong direction completely?? THANKS ALLOT FOR READING ALL OF THIS TO ANYONE WHO TAKES THE TIME!
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
I think at 17 you may not have the financial resources to road race although i could be wrong. Its very expensive.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=679722
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=334253
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=557013
I would suggest starting out autocrossing, you can build a nationally competitive (if the driver is up to the task) car for not that much - http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm
Good luck... I would suggest buying something thats cheap to maintain and leave it stock and do some autocrossing and track schools. Many groups will allow you to work corners/etc for credit towards the schools as well.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=679722
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=334253
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=557013
I would suggest starting out autocrossing, you can build a nationally competitive (if the driver is up to the task) car for not that much - http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm
Good luck... I would suggest buying something thats cheap to maintain and leave it stock and do some autocrossing and track schools. Many groups will allow you to work corners/etc for credit towards the schools as well.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91 CRX CornerCarver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can't spend more than $7,500</TD></TR></TABLE>
On the car?
What about tire and brake pad budget? Travel/Entry fees? Safety Gear for racing (figure $2000-$2500 at least)? Unless you have a steady source of income to accomodate those expenses, then road racing isnt going to happen.
If you really are dead set at "just getting out there" then buy a car already built - a 1st gen integra that was advertised here was just sold for $4500 with a trailer and has everything you need. So if you're patient, you can pick up a good H5 car for cheap.
On the car?
What about tire and brake pad budget? Travel/Entry fees? Safety Gear for racing (figure $2000-$2500 at least)? Unless you have a steady source of income to accomodate those expenses, then road racing isnt going to happen.
If you really are dead set at "just getting out there" then buy a car already built - a 1st gen integra that was advertised here was just sold for $4500 with a trailer and has everything you need. So if you're patient, you can pick up a good H5 car for cheap.
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
By the time you get a competition license, you won't have enough money to race in any HC class if you're building your own car.
Like .RJ said, if you want to drive, start out in autocross and wait until a time when you actually have the money to spend. Until then, the cost of wheel-to-wheel racing is prohibitive to you, just as it is to the majority of us out there.
Like .RJ said, if you want to drive, start out in autocross and wait until a time when you actually have the money to spend. Until then, the cost of wheel-to-wheel racing is prohibitive to you, just as it is to the majority of us out there.
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Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
In my opinion comming from another young person, 21, I think you should start off with something in auto-x.
As RJ said entries fees/travel/safety eqiupment add up fast. Not to mention tires and other consumables. It'll take you over a year probably to prepare your car and get the liscence to go road racing anyway. If you start with auto-x you can start when you first get the car and build as you go and learn to drive better NOW.
On a students budget I can barely afford to auto-x but I still get by. I've wanted to do some road racing but if I did I'd only be able to do maybe 2 races a year on my budget and not even be competitive. I'd rather have my <$4000 nationally competititve car and be able to compete all over in auto-x's. Might not be the same as road racing, but I'm having fun and thats all that should matter.
As RJ said entries fees/travel/safety eqiupment add up fast. Not to mention tires and other consumables. It'll take you over a year probably to prepare your car and get the liscence to go road racing anyway. If you start with auto-x you can start when you first get the car and build as you go and learn to drive better NOW.
On a students budget I can barely afford to auto-x but I still get by. I've wanted to do some road racing but if I did I'd only be able to do maybe 2 races a year on my budget and not even be competitive. I'd rather have my <$4000 nationally competititve car and be able to compete all over in auto-x's. Might not be the same as road racing, but I'm having fun and thats all that should matter.
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA, 92677
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
You can do it for that one of the guys one here sold his H5 Integra for less than that. Once you start looking into the higher classes, you are probably going to go beyond your budget.
My advice is to try and hit a track day just so you can get an idea of what it is like. There is a chance you might not be all that interested once you have done it. I remember my crazy idea that I wanted to play hockey. Two laps around the rink at the local Ice Chalet quickly changed my mind.
Check out the rules and check out the websites related to NASA and the Honda Challenge. You will find all you need to know and then some. You might even find a car for sale which is the way to go for a newcomer...don't build, buy. And you won't obtain a race license immediately. It takes time, hard work, and dedication. And don't forget money.
I doubt Honda Challenge will lead you on the path to becoming a pro racer. Most are hobbysists who love racing and are simply looking for the satisfaction racing provides. Karts are the way to go as a stepping stone to the big leagues. Not only will you learn skills, but those willing to pay drivers respect those that can race a kart competitively. Seventeen is a bit old to begin though...but who knows.
And even then only very few drivers you see racing professionally get paid to race. I would not be surprised if at least 90% of the Rolex 24 drivers paid for their ride.
My advice is to try and hit a track day just so you can get an idea of what it is like. There is a chance you might not be all that interested once you have done it. I remember my crazy idea that I wanted to play hockey. Two laps around the rink at the local Ice Chalet quickly changed my mind.
Check out the rules and check out the websites related to NASA and the Honda Challenge. You will find all you need to know and then some. You might even find a car for sale which is the way to go for a newcomer...don't build, buy. And you won't obtain a race license immediately. It takes time, hard work, and dedication. And don't forget money.
I doubt Honda Challenge will lead you on the path to becoming a pro racer. Most are hobbysists who love racing and are simply looking for the satisfaction racing provides. Karts are the way to go as a stepping stone to the big leagues. Not only will you learn skills, but those willing to pay drivers respect those that can race a kart competitively. Seventeen is a bit old to begin though...but who knows.
And even then only very few drivers you see racing professionally get paid to race. I would not be surprised if at least 90% of the Rolex 24 drivers paid for their ride.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Dahlonega, Ga, USA
i appreciate you being willing to give me some advice, No sarcasm implied, but i meant $7,500 on the car- i think i can make enough working to keep up with racing costs. I kinda wan't it to be an EF. and i don't want to just "get out there" i wan't to be competative, and i want to learn to race. Is there a place for the EF in H5- if so what are the basic rules, EX. engine for it
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: (ryan12321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On a students budget I can barely afford to auto-x but I still get by. I've wanted to do some road racing but if I did I'd only be able to do maybe 2 races a year on my budget and not even be competitive. I'd rather have my <$4000 nationally competititve car and be able to compete all over in auto-x's. Might not be the same as road racing, but I'm having fun and thats all that should matter.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, isn't that the truth.
At 20 with a full time job but also going to school full time, I can barely afford to autocross competitively, let alone get a competition license and race wheel-to-wheel.
Yeah, isn't that the truth.
At 20 with a full time job but also going to school full time, I can barely afford to autocross competitively, let alone get a competition license and race wheel-to-wheel.
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From: Merrimack,, NH, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
(1) Get your parent's permission. You aren't 18 yet.
(2) If you have a budget of $7500 for the car, I know that sounds like a lot, but boy does it go fast. Now, what about your budget for the tow vehicle, and the trailer, and the tires, and the brake pads, and the gas, and the food, and the hotel, and the something that *always* breaks on a race weekend? What's your planned budget for that?
(3) At 17, starts autocrossing, get some car control skills, then move to HPDE, then to roadracing. Otherwise, do a serious (honest) assessment of what it will really cost you to roadrace and see if you can afford it. My guess is you can't at 17, but who knows, maybe you are independently wealthy.
Look, we're not trying to kill your enthusiasm here, just add a little reality. Even racing a cheap "low-class" car is expensive. We've seen too many overenthusiastic young people buy a car, spend lots of money to start building it, and then have to sell it for much less than they have in it because they ran out of money to finish their project. They never saw an actual race. It's sad.
Good luck to you.
(2) If you have a budget of $7500 for the car, I know that sounds like a lot, but boy does it go fast. Now, what about your budget for the tow vehicle, and the trailer, and the tires, and the brake pads, and the gas, and the food, and the hotel, and the something that *always* breaks on a race weekend? What's your planned budget for that?
(3) At 17, starts autocrossing, get some car control skills, then move to HPDE, then to roadracing. Otherwise, do a serious (honest) assessment of what it will really cost you to roadrace and see if you can afford it. My guess is you can't at 17, but who knows, maybe you are independently wealthy.
Look, we're not trying to kill your enthusiasm here, just add a little reality. Even racing a cheap "low-class" car is expensive. We've seen too many overenthusiastic young people buy a car, spend lots of money to start building it, and then have to sell it for much less than they have in it because they ran out of money to finish their project. They never saw an actual race. It's sad.
Good luck to you.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91 CRX CornerCarver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i appreciate you being willing to give me some advice, No sarcasm implied, but i meant $7,500 on the car- i think i can make enough working to keep up with racing costs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I kinda wan't it to be an EF. and i don't want to just "get out there" i wan't to be competative, and i want to learn to race. Is there a place for the EF in H5- if so what are the basic rules, EX. engine for it</TD></TR></TABLE>
One of the links i posted (started by SJR), detailed the costs of building a front-runner EF chassis...... it was alot more than $7500.
Cheap, Fast, Reliable... pick two
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I kinda wan't it to be an EF. and i don't want to just "get out there" i wan't to be competative, and i want to learn to race. Is there a place for the EF in H5- if so what are the basic rules, EX. engine for it</TD></TR></TABLE>
One of the links i posted (started by SJR), detailed the costs of building a front-runner EF chassis...... it was alot more than $7500.
Cheap, Fast, Reliable... pick two
Re: (.RJ)
have you thought about lodging at the track? race gas, tow vehicle up keep and gas?
i'm a very begining HPDE student. i still debate on building my current crx or buying something down the road. i'm also a "ricer" so i'll slowly sink money into my daily driver/hpde car. i'm also looking for a tow vehicle... trailer... etc. i KNOW i couldnt afford to do what i'm doing now in college... even with free track time from working... i live more comfortably at the expense of building my car... but as i slowly progress, i'll live more and more cheap... if you plan on going to college... dont plan on racing. 20k loans can be a burden after college, and slow your future grass roots racing. and if you think you can afford a race weekend by working while doing it and living at home... i dunno what kinda job you have at 17 that will allow you to spend up to (or more than) $1k a weekend. if you are set on building your own car, do it slowly, as you progress as a student driver. i dont want to bash you at all, and i wish you luck. just remember what you are spending all your money on ... a car... before you even hit the track... spend your money on track time... then build or buy your car.
i'm a very begining HPDE student. i still debate on building my current crx or buying something down the road. i'm also a "ricer" so i'll slowly sink money into my daily driver/hpde car. i'm also looking for a tow vehicle... trailer... etc. i KNOW i couldnt afford to do what i'm doing now in college... even with free track time from working... i live more comfortably at the expense of building my car... but as i slowly progress, i'll live more and more cheap... if you plan on going to college... dont plan on racing. 20k loans can be a burden after college, and slow your future grass roots racing. and if you think you can afford a race weekend by working while doing it and living at home... i dunno what kinda job you have at 17 that will allow you to spend up to (or more than) $1k a weekend. if you are set on building your own car, do it slowly, as you progress as a student driver. i dont want to bash you at all, and i wish you luck. just remember what you are spending all your money on ... a car... before you even hit the track... spend your money on track time... then build or buy your car.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Back in the 626, CA, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
These guys are all giving good advise. Racing is expensive, however if you really do your homework it is possible to build a competitive car within your budget.
Last year Hybrids Racing fielded two B16A powered EF CRXs in the WCHC H1 class. Tom Liang's car was built for close to $6500. Just about everything on the car was bought used but it all came together as a nice car. We tried really hard and sucked up a lot but we got free paint jobs and discounts on a lot of things.
I've been racing my car for about 5 years so it's gotten some nice goodies along the way but I think anyone could build the same car for about $9000.
However these guys are right. You'll also need some cash for gear. Also plan on spending around $750 to $1000 per weekend to run the car.
Last year Hybrids Racing fielded two B16A powered EF CRXs in the WCHC H1 class. Tom Liang's car was built for close to $6500. Just about everything on the car was bought used but it all came together as a nice car. We tried really hard and sucked up a lot but we got free paint jobs and discounts on a lot of things.
I've been racing my car for about 5 years so it's gotten some nice goodies along the way but I think anyone could build the same car for about $9000.
However these guys are right. You'll also need some cash for gear. Also plan on spending around $750 to $1000 per weekend to run the car.
Honda-Tech Member
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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
The only way this is likely to work is if you find an already-built ITC Civic (H5?) that is still street legal, so you can drive it to the track. If you don't do many events and stay close to home, you might be able to pull it off. Unless you break the car.
Kirk
Kirk
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: San Jose, CA, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91 CRX CornerCarver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> One more thing, i am now serious about racing now and i wouldn't mind if it winded up being my profession, is Honda challenge a good start or am i headed in the wrong direction completely??</TD></TR></TABLE>
How come nobody gave him the obligatory quote?!?!?!
"How do you make a small fortune in racing? Start with a bigger one!"
First thing you need to know...
VERY FEW PEOPLE MAKE A LIVING FROM RACING. Most people spend their living trying to race, some even go bankrupt doing it. (I'm getting close to it) And no offense to Honda-Challenge, but in all honestly you will NOT get noticed doing Honda-Challenge. Very few venues/racing series will get you noticed. Going to the Skip Barber ladder system, or going to SCCA National Runoffs (and winning) will get you noticed. Each takes money. LOTS OF IT. You can be incredibly talented, but unless you got the funds, you're screwed. I can name hundreds of great race car drivers who will kick any of our ***** any day of the week, but they just don't have the funding.
Second thing to know...
You need to know that it's MUCH cheaper to buy a used race car than it is to build your own, so if you can back out of building a car yourself, do it NOW. (speaking from LOTS of experience trying to build race cars for "cheap") Put together a list of all the things you need to build a race car, and then try to figure out how much it's going to cost. Don't think this of the cheapest parts to do the job, think what is the reasonable avg. prices for parts. Then multiply the final amount by 1.5x and you probably have the true amount that you'll need to spend. I think almost everyone who has built a race car will agree.
My advice is to you is to do HPDE days in a well prepared street car as you're building toward a final race car. It's THE lowest cost towards racing, and you'll find out if you have what it takes to step up. There's a large learning curve from doing track days, to going fast on track, to race craft. Each takes time, and you're lucky enough to start young.
When you go and do a HPDE, the best thing to do is to not be cocky and learn from everyone who wants to help you, even if you think they're full of sh*t. Ask every/any question you have and ask for all the help from people you think are really fast. Learn from those who've gone ahead of you. There's a lot of knowledge out there. Be willing to take advantage of it.
Also, don't sh*t on the idea of gettting a slower class race car. You learn more about proper driving techniques from a low horsepower "momentum" racecar, than a high horsepower car that can mask driver's crappy skills. The best drivers learned/started on the crappiest equipment. I really learned how to drive fast on track with a stock 106hp (at the crank) 1989 CRX SI with Konis, and Ground Controls. It taught me more than driving my 220hp (at the wheel) 1999 Civic SI on track. It takes a real driver to drive a bad/slow race car fast. Anyone can drive the best car with an amazing motor to the checkers.
Good luck and let us know what you decide. We'll be watching for you at Daytona/Indy/Monaco in 5 years.
Steve
ps. support the young brother with kind words. who knows... he could be the next great one.
How come nobody gave him the obligatory quote?!?!?!
"How do you make a small fortune in racing? Start with a bigger one!"
First thing you need to know...
VERY FEW PEOPLE MAKE A LIVING FROM RACING. Most people spend their living trying to race, some even go bankrupt doing it. (I'm getting close to it) And no offense to Honda-Challenge, but in all honestly you will NOT get noticed doing Honda-Challenge. Very few venues/racing series will get you noticed. Going to the Skip Barber ladder system, or going to SCCA National Runoffs (and winning) will get you noticed. Each takes money. LOTS OF IT. You can be incredibly talented, but unless you got the funds, you're screwed. I can name hundreds of great race car drivers who will kick any of our ***** any day of the week, but they just don't have the funding.
Second thing to know...
You need to know that it's MUCH cheaper to buy a used race car than it is to build your own, so if you can back out of building a car yourself, do it NOW. (speaking from LOTS of experience trying to build race cars for "cheap") Put together a list of all the things you need to build a race car, and then try to figure out how much it's going to cost. Don't think this of the cheapest parts to do the job, think what is the reasonable avg. prices for parts. Then multiply the final amount by 1.5x and you probably have the true amount that you'll need to spend. I think almost everyone who has built a race car will agree.
My advice is to you is to do HPDE days in a well prepared street car as you're building toward a final race car. It's THE lowest cost towards racing, and you'll find out if you have what it takes to step up. There's a large learning curve from doing track days, to going fast on track, to race craft. Each takes time, and you're lucky enough to start young.
When you go and do a HPDE, the best thing to do is to not be cocky and learn from everyone who wants to help you, even if you think they're full of sh*t. Ask every/any question you have and ask for all the help from people you think are really fast. Learn from those who've gone ahead of you. There's a lot of knowledge out there. Be willing to take advantage of it.
Also, don't sh*t on the idea of gettting a slower class race car. You learn more about proper driving techniques from a low horsepower "momentum" racecar, than a high horsepower car that can mask driver's crappy skills. The best drivers learned/started on the crappiest equipment. I really learned how to drive fast on track with a stock 106hp (at the crank) 1989 CRX SI with Konis, and Ground Controls. It taught me more than driving my 220hp (at the wheel) 1999 Civic SI on track. It takes a real driver to drive a bad/slow race car fast. Anyone can drive the best car with an amazing motor to the checkers.
Good luck and let us know what you decide. We'll be watching for you at Daytona/Indy/Monaco in 5 years.
Steve
ps. support the young brother with kind words. who knows... he could be the next great one.
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Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Murphy, Tx, USA
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
I only skimmed through the posts and replies. I have only one comment. This is my first year of racing and my expense budget is $10,000. This is just for expenses.
Typical Race:
Entry Fee: $300
Tires: $100 (they should last about four races, so figure one tire per race)
Brake Pads: $100 (they should last a couple of races)
Oil: $40
Food: $200
Lodging: camping at track
Gas: $200 (for race car and truck)
This is already almost a $1K/weekend without any other car maintenance in case of an accident or other mechanical.
Oh, I forgot about race car insurance = $1K/year (I live in the Bronx, so it is high)
And add oil changes for the truck, brake pads for the truck (hauling 5K lbs puts lots of wear and tear on front brakes) and the budget climbs...
why am I racing again????
Oh yeah, I remember, because it is simplyone of the best feelings in the world.
Typical Race:
Entry Fee: $300
Tires: $100 (they should last about four races, so figure one tire per race)
Brake Pads: $100 (they should last a couple of races)
Oil: $40
Food: $200
Lodging: camping at track
Gas: $200 (for race car and truck)
This is already almost a $1K/weekend without any other car maintenance in case of an accident or other mechanical.
Oh, I forgot about race car insurance = $1K/year (I live in the Bronx, so it is high)
And add oil changes for the truck, brake pads for the truck (hauling 5K lbs puts lots of wear and tear on front brakes) and the budget climbs...
why am I racing again????
Oh yeah, I remember, because it is simplyone of the best feelings in the world.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 43
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From: Dahlonega, Ga, USA
thanks to all
I appreciate all the advice and i took the time to read and consider all of it. I'm convinced; too much money for me. I think my answer is shifter karts. A vehicle that is probably faster than any H1 car (on a tight track) for a fraction of the purchase and race costs. Anyone want to slam this idea? 
naw I'm just kidding, i appreciate all the advice and the help keeping myself in the real world 
naw I'm just kidding, i appreciate all the advice and the help keeping myself in the real world
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: thanks to all ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
http://www.maxchallenge-rotax.com/
Oh and the FSAE is a great idea if you want to get involved in automotive engineering.... i only wish i'd known about it when i started school.
Oh and the FSAE is a great idea if you want to get involved in automotive engineering.... i only wish i'd known about it when i started school.
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Monroeville, PA, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
Grandpa says:
I don't want to burst anyones bubble-but $7500 to build a car and have enough spares for a competitive setup just won't happen. Everyone here is giving you very sound advice. I had a budget of $5000 which was immediately doubled once the fab shop got the car. This was due to a number of factors, not the least was the purchase price of the car itself. Even though I am very skilled at a number of tasks-I had the shop take care of most of it for me. If you need sheetmetal and paint that alone will cost over $2000 if it is done by a pro. I started with the premise that the car would be (and still is) street legal. IT suddenly became a money thing for insurance versus travel expense and I now own a truck and trailer (separate budget). See where this is going?
I returned to the track after many years away. Most of those here do not remember places like Marlboro, MD or the Cumberland Nationals-I do. I also remember VIR when the infield on a wet day was super serious mud. Our travel expenses for last year were $1000 for lodging and meals alone (2 trips). Fuel bills are something unto themselves. If you buy race fuel at the track it goes for ~$4.50/gallon. How about the tire bill each season; better have at least $600 for a set of slicks or for that matter a little more for 2 sets of Azenis). Wheels-get the right/legal size for the car (SCCA GCR lists it). Follow advice on this site. You MUST have a helmet-$225 is a good starting pricepoint for a SA2000 Bell, Simpson or similar. So you are really serious about being competitive--then a suit that sells for $300 is in the picture along with gloves, underwear and socks for the race boots.
Take a long long look at the overall picture. I was going to autocross the car and changed my mind as I would not be competitive locally. I have much more fun on track just running as hard as I can. When a Ferrari or Vette asks for a point by and compliments me later for my skill in the corners during a track day, I feel very good. Then again I'm not out there to win anything-you are.
As to powertrains-read the rule books before you buy a car-period! Honda Challenge can get horribly expensive as can Improved Touring if you are not careful. As to your stash of parts-check out the many threads on this board. You may well want to start from scratch in order to have a truly competitive car. Then again you can buy one that is well sorted. Keep in mind what we are telling you about costs. I can assure you that $7500 is the tip of it for the first year. A typical entry fee for a 2 day HPDE (not race) event is around $300. If you are doing a Licensing school that will be more-then again it will be in a year anyway (age). The HPDE and Autocross route (latter very inexpensive run what you brung) may well be the best choice while you plan a budget and slowly work to acquire the right car.
Those here who are in school know well what the sacrifice is to go racing from the financial point of view. I have had the good fortune to avoid that both in the past and now. Most people realize very quickly that they cannot be as competitive as they think they are. I strongly suggest that you do a professionally run school using their cars-Bertil Roos and Entropy Racing come to mind here in the east. I also suggest if you have a very serious desire to go really fast-do the SRE school at Pocono once you are 18; I guarantee it will open your eyes as will the other 2 at Pocono. If you are near Mid-Ohio by all means look at schools there. You want HC in the end, but seat time is the really important thing. Get it in the right environment and it will put you on the right path. Good Luck and keep reading the advice given here.
End of Sermon
I don't want to burst anyones bubble-but $7500 to build a car and have enough spares for a competitive setup just won't happen. Everyone here is giving you very sound advice. I had a budget of $5000 which was immediately doubled once the fab shop got the car. This was due to a number of factors, not the least was the purchase price of the car itself. Even though I am very skilled at a number of tasks-I had the shop take care of most of it for me. If you need sheetmetal and paint that alone will cost over $2000 if it is done by a pro. I started with the premise that the car would be (and still is) street legal. IT suddenly became a money thing for insurance versus travel expense and I now own a truck and trailer (separate budget). See where this is going?
I returned to the track after many years away. Most of those here do not remember places like Marlboro, MD or the Cumberland Nationals-I do. I also remember VIR when the infield on a wet day was super serious mud. Our travel expenses for last year were $1000 for lodging and meals alone (2 trips). Fuel bills are something unto themselves. If you buy race fuel at the track it goes for ~$4.50/gallon. How about the tire bill each season; better have at least $600 for a set of slicks or for that matter a little more for 2 sets of Azenis). Wheels-get the right/legal size for the car (SCCA GCR lists it). Follow advice on this site. You MUST have a helmet-$225 is a good starting pricepoint for a SA2000 Bell, Simpson or similar. So you are really serious about being competitive--then a suit that sells for $300 is in the picture along with gloves, underwear and socks for the race boots.
Take a long long look at the overall picture. I was going to autocross the car and changed my mind as I would not be competitive locally. I have much more fun on track just running as hard as I can. When a Ferrari or Vette asks for a point by and compliments me later for my skill in the corners during a track day, I feel very good. Then again I'm not out there to win anything-you are.
As to powertrains-read the rule books before you buy a car-period! Honda Challenge can get horribly expensive as can Improved Touring if you are not careful. As to your stash of parts-check out the many threads on this board. You may well want to start from scratch in order to have a truly competitive car. Then again you can buy one that is well sorted. Keep in mind what we are telling you about costs. I can assure you that $7500 is the tip of it for the first year. A typical entry fee for a 2 day HPDE (not race) event is around $300. If you are doing a Licensing school that will be more-then again it will be in a year anyway (age). The HPDE and Autocross route (latter very inexpensive run what you brung) may well be the best choice while you plan a budget and slowly work to acquire the right car.
Those here who are in school know well what the sacrifice is to go racing from the financial point of view. I have had the good fortune to avoid that both in the past and now. Most people realize very quickly that they cannot be as competitive as they think they are. I strongly suggest that you do a professionally run school using their cars-Bertil Roos and Entropy Racing come to mind here in the east. I also suggest if you have a very serious desire to go really fast-do the SRE school at Pocono once you are 18; I guarantee it will open your eyes as will the other 2 at Pocono. If you are near Mid-Ohio by all means look at schools there. You want HC in the end, but seat time is the really important thing. Get it in the right environment and it will put you on the right path. Good Luck and keep reading the advice given here.
End of Sermon
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Advice for honda challenge build (jc836)
I agree with everyone else, but you can cut some corners, cost wise...starting with the car, if you can find a chassis for cheap, and slowly build on it, not only will you 'know' your car, but it CAN save money...look for used equipment, that of course is still certified and can be used in sanctioned races sometimes the guys that actually HAVE money for racing tend to get rid of things if it's out of 'style'. Also, get to know dealers and distributors of race equipment or people that have done it for a while, trust me that's a BIG plus. The only down side to this methodoligy is TIME, I've spent 2 years building a car, and i'm not even CLOSE yet, be patient, because the more you learn about your car and the limits you can push it to, at least for me, the better a driver I become.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK
Re: Advice for honda challenge build ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
dam i was like you back in the days. 18 now and finally realizing that it takes time and $$$ to become a race car driver. i skipped auto-x and went straight to HPDE. IMO, that $7,500 will just cover entrance fee, gas, food, and parts for a couple of months. working full time and having bills left and right i barely just have enough to cover the fee.
if you have the time it will come to you. and plus if you want to skip HPDE and go to racing school thats about 4-5 grand. good luck
if you have the time it will come to you. and plus if you want to skip HPDE and go to racing school thats about 4-5 grand. good luck
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
From: boldly scornful of higher mental function, US
Re: Advice for honda challenge build (hmongboyLS)
This is my running total.
Car and Hard Parts
Car purchase $2,500.00
Springs $50.00
27mm Torsion Bars $0.00
Wheels $180.00
Roll Cage $750.00
Brake lines $120.00
Integra ECU $0.00
Header $0.00
Kill Switch $0.00
Window Net $20.00
5 pt. Harness $70.00
Disc to Drum Rear Conversion $0.00
Fire Extingquisher $20.00
Total: $3,710.00
Consumables
Tires $60.00
Brake Rotors $48.00
8 range spark plugs $16.00
Spares
Engine, Transmission, Axles $300.00
Calipers (Front) $20.00
Notice the large %age of free stuff. This is unlikely to be repeatable for a lot of people. A big reason for getting all the free stuff is that I drive the slowest POS out there, and a lot of people are giving the stuff away for a song because it's mostly worthless, slow, and outdated. (the car is a 1986 Civic) It also helps a LOT to have connections, and I made ALL of those through autocrossing and DE's.
There is also no labor cost involved. I did all the above myself, or it is included in the item total.
This is for the bare bones, bare minimum LEGAL setup. It is not fast. It doesn't have any pimpy parts. (besides the cage, thanks again Blake) No sp00n junk, no diff.
this is just the car. Hotel, food, gas, real tires, brakes, tires, food, tires, will start to add up a lot faster than this.
FWIW, YM will most definitely V...
Car and Hard Parts
Car purchase $2,500.00
Springs $50.00
27mm Torsion Bars $0.00
Wheels $180.00
Roll Cage $750.00
Brake lines $120.00
Integra ECU $0.00
Header $0.00
Kill Switch $0.00
Window Net $20.00
5 pt. Harness $70.00
Disc to Drum Rear Conversion $0.00
Fire Extingquisher $20.00
Total: $3,710.00
Consumables
Tires $60.00
Brake Rotors $48.00
8 range spark plugs $16.00
Spares
Engine, Transmission, Axles $300.00
Calipers (Front) $20.00
Notice the large %age of free stuff. This is unlikely to be repeatable for a lot of people. A big reason for getting all the free stuff is that I drive the slowest POS out there, and a lot of people are giving the stuff away for a song because it's mostly worthless, slow, and outdated. (the car is a 1986 Civic) It also helps a LOT to have connections, and I made ALL of those through autocrossing and DE's.
There is also no labor cost involved. I did all the above myself, or it is included in the item total.
This is for the bare bones, bare minimum LEGAL setup. It is not fast. It doesn't have any pimpy parts. (besides the cage, thanks again Blake) No sp00n junk, no diff.
this is just the car. Hotel, food, gas, real tires, brakes, tires, food, tires, will start to add up a lot faster than this.
FWIW, YM will most definitely V...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,578
Likes: 0
From: AWFUL autocrosser from, RI
Re: ('91 CRX CornerCarver)
I fyou are spinning your car on the street, what in God's name do you think you'd do on a road course in a wheel-to-wheel situation???
You've been driving for a year. Come on now.
Karts are a good idea to start with. Much more realistic. Auto-x is the most practical, accessible, cost effective way to learn car control, line, etc.
Read some racing books, take some driving schools and either get a high-paying job or get a lot of sponsors.
You've been driving for a year. Come on now.
Karts are a good idea to start with. Much more realistic. Auto-x is the most practical, accessible, cost effective way to learn car control, line, etc.
Read some racing books, take some driving schools and either get a high-paying job or get a lot of sponsors.
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
From: Merrimack,, NH, USA
Re: Advice for honda challenge build (hmongboyLS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hmongboyLS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have the time it will come to you. and plus if you want to skip HPDE and go to racing school thats about 4-5 grand. good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not quite... if he has a preped race car and does an SCCA licensing school, it won't cost him 4-5K. If he did skip barber or bonderant(sp?) where they provide the car, that would cost a lot more.
Not quite... if he has a preped race car and does an SCCA licensing school, it won't cost him 4-5K. If he did skip barber or bonderant(sp?) where they provide the car, that would cost a lot more.
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