Is it absolutely necessaty to upgrade every piece in the valvetrain in order to rev higher? What materials are good for mid-high boost turbo applications?

 

Something to consider is how much power do you want to put down? Since you want to turbo you should probably focus on the bottom end. After all if you bend rods at 5500 RPM from too much power you won't have to worry about your valvetrain. Unless you already have a built bottom end then that is where you need to put a lot of work. H series needs to be sleeved and the pistons upgraded for large turbo apps. Would not hurt to balance the rotating assembly either.
About the valvetrain: How fast are you looking to spin? What cams do you have?

the Pirate

 

I have stock cams. I heard that they were the boost to use. I actually want some Type-S cams. Those are better. H22As seem to make power way past redline but I'm not sure how far past. I'd like to spin to about 9k

 

Reving over 7500 rpm on an h22 is f'n pointless!

All dynos I have seen show the h22 not making much more if any over 75.

I beleive (not positive) that satans peaks at 7500 with crower stage 3 cams.

Stiffer springs and retainers would be the only necessity with type s cams

 

Interesting post..

 

"...f'n pointless.." Really? Satan_srv's H22 is all-motor. Are you trying to say that a turbo and all-motor powerband is the same? Isn't the fact that must of the dyno charts you've seen only make power to about 7500 because the car has a stock head?

 

you don't need to rev to 9k, especially if you have a turbo

do what the pirate said, if your going turbo, focus on the bottom
end and on engine management
then when you start making bigger numbers,
you can upgrade your valvetrain

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SKDRCR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you don't need to rev to 9k, especially if you have a turbo

do what the pirate said, if your going turbo, focus on the bottom
end and on engine management
then when you start making bigger numbers,
you can upgrade your valvetrain </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not trying to say I want to rev til 9k. i just want to rev past stock redline. Bottom end is taken care off.

 

So is your bottom end built? What rods do you have? What pistons? What Compression? What sleeves? What bearings? How many Miles on the bottom end?

You can get your stock H22 cams to go 9k rpm pretty easlily with retainers and STIFF springs, but you'd better get a good timing belt and the H23 manual tensioner kit.

Why do you want to boost and rev that high? With boost if you want more power add more pressure... High revving motors are usually for all motor.

For the price of cams, valves, retainers and springs you could get a nice port job that would help you get more power. Also most headwork includes polishing the cumbustion chambers to remove hotspots...AKA more boost with less likelyhood of detonation...


Modified by PirateMcFred at 2:14 PM 2/2/2004

 

Well ask the rod manufacturer if they know what rpm their rods are good for specifically with your brand of piston. As far as over reving your stock valvetrain should be good for 8k BUT that's really taking some chances. I'd at LEAST do some titanium retainers since I have felt the difference in weight by hand and it is significant.

 

I have Eagle rods, JE 10:1 pistons, and the block was sleeved by Golden Eagle. I'm also planning to get some Type-S cams.

 

I'd still just stay with the stock limit and add more boost. If you are worried about running out of gear then get a H23 tranny. Haha or even an F22 tranny.

The Pirate

P.S. nice edit on the Sig...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...
P.S. nice edit on the Sig...</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

So you think I can get away with not changing my valves? Just changing my springs and retainers with Type-S cams?

 

won't putting type-s cams just bump up your compression more?
you're already at 10.0:1 compression
if you're turboing you're ride
why would you want to raise the comression more
you'll have to tune the sh-t out of it and run race gas

 

Ok go ahead and rev your boosted motor to 9000 then. I cant wait to hear you complain when it blows and I say told you so! You shouldnt want to or need to rev that high. Its just asking for trouble!

It doesnt matter what kind of cams are in the h22 head... I have never seen them make power over 7500. Yeah a boosted h22 might make power over 7500 but it would put alot of stress for no reason at all. Just turn up the boost if you wannt more power. It will put less stress on the motor than reving "over the rev limit" You should learn from other peoples experiences.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok go ahead and rev your boosted motor to 9000 then. I cant wait to hear you complain when it blows and I say told you so! You shouldnt want to or need to rev that high. Its just asking for trouble!

It doesnt matter what kind of cams are in the h22 head... I have never seen them make power over 7500. Yeah a boosted h22 might make power over 7500 but it would put alot of stress for no reason at all. Just turn up the boost if you wannt more power. It will put less stress on the motor than reving "over the rev limit" You should learn from other peoples experiences. </TD></TR></TABLE>
owned

 

IMO, revving out the motor is a great way of producing faster E.T.'s.

Not only does revving out higher allow you to make more horsepower, but it also effectively gives you shorter gears.

Someone has posted up a dyno of their H22 that showed the torqe at the wheels, and it showed that even all the way to fuel cut, each gear is making more torque at the wheels throughout the powerband than in the previous gear. This means that revving out is always going to make you go faster than shifting early.

You get two advantages together by increasing your redline, AND you can spool up a larger turbo, making for a higher HP potential.

I would say w/ a set of big cams, you would be able to shift way past 8k and still be making better E.T.'s. But you would have to worry about the duration of those cams interfering w/ the boost.

 

SKDRCR, you are probably thinking about Type-S Pistons. big difference. Type S cams are actually similar to crower stage 2 at least on lift, never degreed them so I don't know about duration.

DPR said that I could rev their package to 8700 (Stock outer springs, stiff inner springs intake and exhaust with Ti retainers) with Type-S cams.

LudeyKrus, I guess that i have only seen one gear dynos never multiple gears back to back, so cool...

So Donminate9 upgrade with skunk2 (or whomever) Vtrain and leave the valves stock. XES had over 500hp on an H23 with stock valves and head bolts. After that Rev the **** out of it and we will see what all happens. you'll probably be fine. Check Ebay for these spring/retainer combos they are like $390 before shipping for Crower... just when you do it and dyno tune POST your Dyno...
the Pirate

 

the last h22 we tuned had just type s cams and made power to 8000....

hp is a function of torque and rpms. the higher the rpms you have the torque the more hp you have.

as far as valve train... deffinatly upgrade the valve train if you are changing the cams. even type s cams at 8000 are too much for the stock valve train

 

Would you be able to provid the plot of that dyno.. I would be interested in seeing it, because I can feel by my butt dyno that my engine makes power all the way to 8 as well. ECU's rev limit is 8.3k but with stock valvetrain I dont want to be adventurous.

 

this is copy;d from the orignal post

this is a 98 civic ex with a jdm h22a. type s cams, butterfly plate removed from the intake manifold, disabled balancer shafts, greddy header, piece of **** exhaust thrown together from leftover parts, the ice man short ram from the d16 (it fits inside the throttle body) and a chipped p28 tuned by me at eurospeedperformance. thanks to j.davis for the ecu, it was a stock p13 bin file converted to run on a p28, jumper harness and baseline chip, and JMI for the swap.

198hp and 148 tq

the low runs were base line, this is before and after tuning





edit: with the new 3 inch intake and not as getto exhuast im sure we are over 200hp now with alot flatter tq curve

 

Cool.

I will have base dyno numbers for you guys this year. See what she is actually putting out and where I stand after most of this work..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is copy;d from the orignal post

this is a 98 civic ex with a jdm h22a. type s cams, butterfly plate removed from the intake manifold, disabled balancer shafts, greddy header, piece of **** exhaust thrown together from leftover parts, the ice man short ram from the d16 (it fits inside the throttle body) and a chipped p28 tuned by me at eurospeedperformance. thanks to j.davis for the ecu, it was a stock p13 bin file converted to run on a p28, jumper harness and baseline chip, and JMI for the swap.

198hp and 148 tq

the low runs were base line, this is before and after tuning





edit: with the new 3 inch intake and not as getto exhuast im sure we are over 200hp now with alot flatter tq curve</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ummm I am seeing a peak of 7300 rpms am I stupid or am I right?

I thought you said 8000

Nice numbers though I'd be happy with that!

 

lol I saw that too, but I just figured he was referring to hp numbers not torque..