I getting a JDM ITR engine for my hybrid. I assume it has over 30k on it so I was thinking before I swap it into my hatch, that I will rebuild the bottom end like this:

Bottom end:
CTR pistons (.25 over)
Eagle Rods (got them for free)
Completely balanced and blueprinted

I want to do this right the first time so I was thinking that getting the head p&p would make sense since the head will be off. I talked to Tom at Portflow and he suggested:

Top End:
Type R camshafts
Type R valvesprings (I was thinking brand new springs since I have the chance)
Portflow Inner Springs
Portflow Retainers
Deshroud the head to lower compression w/ CTR pistons to 11.5
Spoon 1-piece headgasket

Now my questions is, the headwork costs around $1000. Will the gains be worth the $1000 or should I just stick with a stock ITR head and get some Toda B's? I could always get the Toda B's later so that is the benefit of doing the headwork first.

I hate to ask this question, but what hp figures have some of you guys reached with Type cams R and a p&p head.

Anyways, thanks for reading this...

 

Why would you get CTR pistons then go an deshroud the head to go back
to a lowly 11.5:1 CR? Kinda defeats the purpose. And on top of that you
are gonna use a thinner head gasket? Come on now. Go get some 11.5:1
forged pistons to go with those forged rods instead. Else use stock rods.
Use a stock head gasket too.
Of you are going to change the springs, go get some toda springs. They should
be able to handle any type of cam you decide to go with.
I would probably get headwork before cams. Makes more sense that way.
You should be able to reach about 190 with stock cams. maybe a bit more.

You need to do some more research, the formula you have is flawed in a few
places

 

The idea of getting the head deshrouded is that I can have the option of running 11.5 or 11.6-1 compression with a stock head gasket. If I choose to do so, I can use a thinner headgasket to raise compression to around 11.8 or 11.9-1.

Anyways, I am just going with the advice from Tom at Portflow. I told him I wanted a reliable street setup. I figure he knows enough about Honda engines so I trust him.

Anyways, what forged pistons are you talking about? Endyne/wiseco, JE, Toda???

 

Endyn pistons. They are the best as far as cost and quality is concerned.

I would never modify the head to lower compression. Better to work around
the head instead. But hey, if you are going with Tom's setup, why are you
asking us??

 

I'd stay away from Crower Retainers, too. If I remember correctly, sgT had one fail on him, and I know a local guy here had one fail on him as well.

Ditto on the piston comments, Endyn is the way to go. (If your doing forged..) And I'd have to agree on the headwork to lower the CR.. not a good idea, but its just my .02

 

Okay I understand about the headwork. Thanks.

A question about the Endyne pistons. Are they really worth it? CTR pistons are about $300 less. Not that price matters, but I hear so much conflicting statements about Endyne and I wonder if their products are all hype or proven.

TIA


[Modified by spoonek9, 2:17 PM 10/4/2001]

 

Endyn pistons are made by Wiseco. If you don't want to deal with Endyn, then order pistons from Wiseco. Larry at Endyn hand polishes the tops of the pistons to get rid of the sharp edges that could cause pre-ignition. The Endyns/Wisecos are really good quality - I have them in my car and am really happy with the power/torque gain. The Endyn 81.5 and Eagle Rod combo is about 100 g lighter than stock per cylinder - which is amazing.

If you're boring/honing the block you might want to consider the 84.5mm pistons and go for 2.0 L of displacement - but the B18C5 block has nikasil liners - so resleeving may be required if you do this.

That and be prepared to take a month or so to properly break in your rings.

 

sleeving required as the stock sleeves arent big enough to hold 84.5

Im still trying to understand your nikasil liner statement.

Ring breaking in a month?? only if you drive 5 miles a day.

 

What is the max bore you can do without effecting stock piston sleeve integrity? Also what is the cost of resleeving the block?

I am starting to see the light of the Endyne piston & rod combo...

 

its easiest to use an 81.5 mil piston b/c there are readily available. id say that probably about the largest you wanna go. 82 is possible as well. but its splitting hairs at taht point. Resleeving costs about 600-1000 on average

 

Okay so 81.5mm.

About the 84.5mm overbore. Is there any reason to use a B20 block over a B18C block that has been resleeved? Are there any reliability issues to be concerned of?

TIA

 

My point is I wasn't completely sure if resleeving was required with the 84.5mil pistons but that the integrity of the nikasil liner would definitely be affected.

I'm lucky to drive my R 5 miles a day - it took me a month to get 3000 kms on the car - but I was also breaking in new crank bearings too. (I guess by your statement I'm being overly careful?)

 

What is nikasil?
Everyone keeps mentioning this in relation to stock cylinder sleeves but nobody
knows what it is and what motors use it.

To my knowledge B18C uses a cast in cast steel/iron liner. Its also ribbed for
your pleasure.

THe stock b18a/b/c sleeve is physically smaller than 84.5 was my point.

 

nikasil??? i have no clue, but i am going to make the assumption of nickel silver... that are probably trying to refer to the material of the sleeve...

 

nickasil cures vaginal problems, right?

 

What they are reffering to is the new cylinder design that honda is using which is an aluminum cylinder with a special hared nickel silcone finish. The problem is you can't bore a nikasil cylinder because without that finish the cylinders could not handle the abrasion of the rings. Very few current hondas use that design if I remember correctly its used on some of there bikes and I think the new v-6s such as the TLs,MDX and such but don't quote me as I'm not 100% sure. And to clarify all the B series motors use a conventional cylinder construction and can be bored but to certain limits before resleeving.

 

do you guys recommend 82mm toda pistons??

 

Now that we are talking about all sorts of different pistons. What do you guys think of the JUN pistons compared to the endyns or todas?

 

yea, any ppl using any of these 3 kinds pistons give some information pls

 

Nikasil? It's a nickel-silicon oxide usually plasma bonded or plated on cylinders to reduce friction and wear. Extremely hard compound, they use it in F1 cylinders... I'm not aware of any production cars using nikasil nor aftermarket parts using it either.

 

Only thing I've heard about nikasil liners was in the H22A, but this information
was never confirmed nor denied by ANYONE. And I have asked a lot of people.