Electric supercharger??
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From: Lacey, washington, US
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Re: Electric supercharger?? (2kflamedlude)
yeah isnt that crazy? i think its like 1900 for the basic charger alone.. 3000 for specific cars that bolt right up. but thats still not including the fact that you cannot run it on all the time.. its suppost to be like for short term boost.. really gay
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Lacey, washington, US
Re: Electric supercharger?? (Mykizism)
Thats for damn sure.. Im getting my JRSC soon and there is thread and I was laughing my *** off.
http://www.3.8mustang.com/foru...57705
http://www.3.8mustang.com/foru...57705
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Sportscar Heaven, England
EDIT:It seems similar to the Surbo but cant find no history on the co.
There is no such thing as an electric supercharger unless the cars engine is electric as a sc runs directly from the engine (as u lucky gitz with JRSC's know!)
There has been various system like e.g. the surbo (dont even ask!) and electric s-charger.
LINKS:
The SURBO itself...
http://www.surbo.net/
http://www.cruiseboard.co.uk/n...21279
and here one just v.funny bits..
http://www.cruiseboard.co.uk/n...11113
The orig post had each of the 'idiot' 's posts edited so was removed after over 100 pages of pointing out it couldnt work and that Pugpete (user) is an idiot.
Probly the funniest threat (but also full of technical facts and logic in the orig) about the electric turbo, now theres an electic supercharger!!
So efficiency...
Lets see,
6hp drive = 4440w (watts of energy)
So as energy cannot be created or destroyed it has to come from somewhere and go somwhere else, right? This 4440w of power will come from the batterys; 4x batteries arnt going to do the power to weight ratio much good are they? and if you dont switch off the charging circuit it will literally melt all the -stock- wires related due to the extremly excessive current produced, [i]will it not?</u>
So you only get 12seconds;
13lb, each battery and-680a A 200w Alternator will NOT be able to charge this no way, 4kw Stereo systems use like 2-3 extra H/D alternatorsalongside stock! so this is why it will take so long to charge (and knacker your charging system!)
ESC draws 1250amps.
Plus the gains will be mainly experiened in boost and from the performance FMU, injectors, F-pump etc etc. These are mods that make power.
The charger system as it does not have a bypass system/valve will always be a dead-weight when not in use, so it will be like a bottle neck in the intake system.
8+ batt terminals = 4Batts minimum! 4x $300 = woo. Pricey to say the least!
<u>So lets see:</u>
*Adds the weight of min reccomended 4x extra powerful batteries
*Very expensive batteries and cables etc
*Draws a WHOPPING 4440watts of power that is somhow provided by your engines chrging system/1 uprated charger (hummmmm!)
*Out of boost the charger is a bottleneck in the system
*Strains electrical charging system and can risk destroying car electrics (as noted in site can damage electrical sys)
*5.5PSI max?
*High intake temperature not to mention temp coming from the motors when theyre run!
*If the motors produce 6hp then isnt most of the benefits coming from the other mods! (injectors, fuel pump FMU tuning etc etc!!)
*expensive
*Can no way push as much as a turbo or spool even a qtr of some turbos (e.g. 100,000rpm blowers!)
*short boost
*You should lookout for scams like Surbo though. IMHO I think i would prefer a Turbo or a real belt driven supercharger (like JRSC)
Modified by OTT at 4:24 AM 1/24/2004
There is no such thing as an electric supercharger unless the cars engine is electric as a sc runs directly from the engine (as u lucky gitz with JRSC's know!)
There has been various system like e.g. the surbo (dont even ask!) and electric s-charger.
LINKS:
The SURBO itself...
http://www.surbo.net/
http://www.cruiseboard.co.uk/n...21279
and here one just v.funny bits..
http://www.cruiseboard.co.uk/n...11113
The orig post had each of the 'idiot' 's posts edited so was removed after over 100 pages of pointing out it couldnt work and that Pugpete (user) is an idiot.
Probly the funniest threat (but also full of technical facts and logic in the orig) about the electric turbo, now theres an electic supercharger!!
So efficiency...
Lets see,
6hp drive = 4440w (watts of energy)
So as energy cannot be created or destroyed it has to come from somewhere and go somwhere else, right? This 4440w of power will come from the batterys; 4x batteries arnt going to do the power to weight ratio much good are they? and if you dont switch off the charging circuit it will literally melt all the -stock- wires related due to the extremly excessive current produced, [i]will it not?</u>
So you only get 12seconds;
13lb, each battery and-680a A 200w Alternator will NOT be able to charge this no way, 4kw Stereo systems use like 2-3 extra H/D alternatorsalongside stock! so this is why it will take so long to charge (and knacker your charging system!)
ESC draws 1250amps.
Plus the gains will be mainly experiened in boost and from the performance FMU, injectors, F-pump etc etc. These are mods that make power.
The charger system as it does not have a bypass system/valve will always be a dead-weight when not in use, so it will be like a bottle neck in the intake system.
8+ batt terminals = 4Batts minimum! 4x $300 = woo. Pricey to say the least!
<u>So lets see:</u>
*Adds the weight of min reccomended 4x extra powerful batteries
*Very expensive batteries and cables etc
*Draws a WHOPPING 4440watts of power that is somhow provided by your engines chrging system/1 uprated charger (hummmmm!)
*Out of boost the charger is a bottleneck in the system
*Strains electrical charging system and can risk destroying car electrics (as noted in site can damage electrical sys)
*5.5PSI max?
*High intake temperature not to mention temp coming from the motors when theyre run!
*If the motors produce 6hp then isnt most of the benefits coming from the other mods! (injectors, fuel pump FMU tuning etc etc!!)
*expensive
*Can no way push as much as a turbo or spool even a qtr of some turbos (e.g. 100,000rpm blowers!)
*short boost
*You should lookout for scams like Surbo though. IMHO I think i would prefer a Turbo or a real belt driven supercharger (like JRSC)
Modified by OTT at 4:24 AM 1/24/2004
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From: Denver, CO
It doesn't seem anything like the surbo, what is the surbo? A vaccum? There isn't tech much info on the site just a bunch of testamonials. The ESC is based of an eaton twin rotor. It doesn't seem like the concepts match. Is there anything link with more tech info on the surbo? And where did your info come from about the ESC?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: (OTT)
This is Geoff Knight, designer, inventor, and developer of the ESC line of electric superchargers you are discussing (if I can use the term lightly)
You are badly mistaken, and you only know half of the truth about electric supercharging. Be more thorough and do research BEFORE you criticise anything, because you look foolish when proven wrong. Everyone on this board will know this to be a fact if they look into it.
You assume that the alternator will supply the current to run the ESC, and that is a falacy. Although 1000 amp alternators CAN be produced (I have a 550 amp unit) it is NOT practical to do so. We dont use the alternator to do ANYTHING except charge the batteries, and then we only suggest that IF you upgrade to a 200+amp unit. The Odyssey batteries have no limit to the inrush current (inrush is how fast a battery can be charged). Regular lead-acid will boil the electrilite at anything over 30 amps inrush. The Odyssey units can take a full 1000 amps inrush.
You also assume that the system adds a lot of weight--no more than any turbo or conventional supercharger kit does. I have designed and built both turbo and supercharger kits since the mid 70's, and when shipped they ALL weighed 80+lb. Granted that some parts are replacing existing parts on the car, but small turbos weigh 20lb, and large ones weigh 30lb. Intercoolers are 15-25lb. Exhaust manifolds are 20lb+. Pipes, wastegates, blow-off valves, etc all add up to a LOT of weight!!! An Eaton SC weighs 42lb. Add the adapters, intake manifold, extra pulleys, mounts, etc and you have 70+extra lb.
My ESC weighs 40lb. The ESC-400 runs four 12lb batteries. We usually replace the factory 40lb battery with a lighweight unit as well, so the total extra weight of 5 batteries is 5 X 12 = 60 minus the 40lb stock battery totals 20 extra lb. Add 12-15lb for the solenoids, and another 5-20lb for cables (3/0 cable is 1.5 lb per ft) so we are LESS than a turbo and about the same as a belt driven SC.
My ESC draws 15KW, so the amperage depends on what voltage you run. 15KW @ 12V is 1250 amps, but at 5-6 psi we run 24V which cuts the draw down to 625 amps. For modified engine running higher boost, we run 36 and 48V on the drag racing versions, and have made well over 30PSI boost!!!. Most turbos can make over 26 psi because of the P/R (exhaust to intake pressure ratio) and the ones that do are race only units.
You will need to choose what to dip your feet into when the five page article appears in Turbo Mag about my invention. Feet taste bad (from what I have heard) when inseted into one's mouth after making statements that are not well thought out.
Any of you sceptics can contact turbo directly, but I am posting my conversation with Evan Griffey (Chief Editor for Turbo). I have advertised in turbo since the early 90's. They as well as Sport Compact KNOW this works. Some of you will know it as well when you come to Moroso on Feb 8 to see my bone stock Altima auto trans slug run high13-low14. I will be none of you know of a STOCK auto trans Altima running 8 psi that runs under 15 sec.
Subject: RE: THOMAS KNIGHT ALTIMA
Date: 1/15/2004 6:12:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: evan.griffey@primedia.com
Geoff,
I would like hi-res pictures of the Altima, an engine shot, a close-up of
the unit, dyno sheets with 115 and 208 hp runs an dfa detailed description
of how the unit works, what went into the development, pros and cons of the
unit.
This will be an introduction to the technology.
I would also like to follow the Eclipse and see what can be done with a
built engine. For this I will need the same stuff as above as well as
timeslips from the track.
let me know when you can get me the materials so I can schedule the story.
Evan
> ----------
> From: ATSTurbo@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:15 PM
> To: evan.griffey@primedia.com
> Subject: Re: THOMAS KNIGHT ALTIMA
>
> Evan,
> I will be at Moroso Feb 8 for the Sunday event. From everything I have
> done, it looks like the Altima should be low 14's to high 13's now.
> A couple of weeks ago I replaced the ESC-400 with the 36 volt ESC-400DR
> (drag race) version. I ran it about 30 times at 10 psi. It was FAST. The
> fuel cut came in on one run and I burned three of four pistons. Dropped in
> a 2001 stock engine with 8K on it, and added a set of OBX headers. Took it
> to South Florida Performance today and did multiple dyno runs. Ran a safer
> 8 psi (too scared to run more) and went over the 200 wheel hp mark. Four
> runs were within 1.2 hp of each other at 208 wheel hp and 229 tq. Not bad
> from a bone stock engine auto trans car. Baseline run with the 2001 engine
> and header was 115 wheel hp and 138 tq.
> I have stripped some 300lb from the car so far, and will add a set of
> slicks. With everything I have done, we should see 14.2 @ 97 or better. I
> will strip even more weight.
> I know you were interested in doing an article on this invention. Is
> there anything you would like from me at this point? History, photos, dyno
> slips, track slips?
> I feel I have done all I can on a stock vehicle. Maybe at the track I
> will crank boost up to 12 for one last run :-) Throw a couple of gallons
> of VP in it or something. The ESC-400DR can make 20+ psi at 36 volts, but
> I dont want to swap ANOTHER engine into this particular car. I bought a 98
> Eclipse non turbo for the next project. That will get a fully built 420A
> and 20 psi boost. The Neon is after that.
>
>
>
> THOMAS (GEOFF) KNIGHT
> THOMAS KNIGHT TURBOS
> BOOSTHEAD.COM
> 786-243-2000
> 22050 SW 155 AVE
> MIAMI, FL
> 33170
You are badly mistaken, and you only know half of the truth about electric supercharging. Be more thorough and do research BEFORE you criticise anything, because you look foolish when proven wrong. Everyone on this board will know this to be a fact if they look into it.
You assume that the alternator will supply the current to run the ESC, and that is a falacy. Although 1000 amp alternators CAN be produced (I have a 550 amp unit) it is NOT practical to do so. We dont use the alternator to do ANYTHING except charge the batteries, and then we only suggest that IF you upgrade to a 200+amp unit. The Odyssey batteries have no limit to the inrush current (inrush is how fast a battery can be charged). Regular lead-acid will boil the electrilite at anything over 30 amps inrush. The Odyssey units can take a full 1000 amps inrush.
You also assume that the system adds a lot of weight--no more than any turbo or conventional supercharger kit does. I have designed and built both turbo and supercharger kits since the mid 70's, and when shipped they ALL weighed 80+lb. Granted that some parts are replacing existing parts on the car, but small turbos weigh 20lb, and large ones weigh 30lb. Intercoolers are 15-25lb. Exhaust manifolds are 20lb+. Pipes, wastegates, blow-off valves, etc all add up to a LOT of weight!!! An Eaton SC weighs 42lb. Add the adapters, intake manifold, extra pulleys, mounts, etc and you have 70+extra lb.
My ESC weighs 40lb. The ESC-400 runs four 12lb batteries. We usually replace the factory 40lb battery with a lighweight unit as well, so the total extra weight of 5 batteries is 5 X 12 = 60 minus the 40lb stock battery totals 20 extra lb. Add 12-15lb for the solenoids, and another 5-20lb for cables (3/0 cable is 1.5 lb per ft) so we are LESS than a turbo and about the same as a belt driven SC.
My ESC draws 15KW, so the amperage depends on what voltage you run. 15KW @ 12V is 1250 amps, but at 5-6 psi we run 24V which cuts the draw down to 625 amps. For modified engine running higher boost, we run 36 and 48V on the drag racing versions, and have made well over 30PSI boost!!!. Most turbos can make over 26 psi because of the P/R (exhaust to intake pressure ratio) and the ones that do are race only units.
You will need to choose what to dip your feet into when the five page article appears in Turbo Mag about my invention. Feet taste bad (from what I have heard) when inseted into one's mouth after making statements that are not well thought out.
Any of you sceptics can contact turbo directly, but I am posting my conversation with Evan Griffey (Chief Editor for Turbo). I have advertised in turbo since the early 90's. They as well as Sport Compact KNOW this works. Some of you will know it as well when you come to Moroso on Feb 8 to see my bone stock Altima auto trans slug run high13-low14. I will be none of you know of a STOCK auto trans Altima running 8 psi that runs under 15 sec.
Subject: RE: THOMAS KNIGHT ALTIMA
Date: 1/15/2004 6:12:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: evan.griffey@primedia.com
Geoff,
I would like hi-res pictures of the Altima, an engine shot, a close-up of
the unit, dyno sheets with 115 and 208 hp runs an dfa detailed description
of how the unit works, what went into the development, pros and cons of the
unit.
This will be an introduction to the technology.
I would also like to follow the Eclipse and see what can be done with a
built engine. For this I will need the same stuff as above as well as
timeslips from the track.
let me know when you can get me the materials so I can schedule the story.
Evan
> ----------
> From: ATSTurbo@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:15 PM
> To: evan.griffey@primedia.com
> Subject: Re: THOMAS KNIGHT ALTIMA
>
> Evan,
> I will be at Moroso Feb 8 for the Sunday event. From everything I have
> done, it looks like the Altima should be low 14's to high 13's now.
> A couple of weeks ago I replaced the ESC-400 with the 36 volt ESC-400DR
> (drag race) version. I ran it about 30 times at 10 psi. It was FAST. The
> fuel cut came in on one run and I burned three of four pistons. Dropped in
> a 2001 stock engine with 8K on it, and added a set of OBX headers. Took it
> to South Florida Performance today and did multiple dyno runs. Ran a safer
> 8 psi (too scared to run more) and went over the 200 wheel hp mark. Four
> runs were within 1.2 hp of each other at 208 wheel hp and 229 tq. Not bad
> from a bone stock engine auto trans car. Baseline run with the 2001 engine
> and header was 115 wheel hp and 138 tq.
> I have stripped some 300lb from the car so far, and will add a set of
> slicks. With everything I have done, we should see 14.2 @ 97 or better. I
> will strip even more weight.
> I know you were interested in doing an article on this invention. Is
> there anything you would like from me at this point? History, photos, dyno
> slips, track slips?
> I feel I have done all I can on a stock vehicle. Maybe at the track I
> will crank boost up to 12 for one last run :-) Throw a couple of gallons
> of VP in it or something. The ESC-400DR can make 20+ psi at 36 volts, but
> I dont want to swap ANOTHER engine into this particular car. I bought a 98
> Eclipse non turbo for the next project. That will get a fully built 420A
> and 20 psi boost. The Neon is after that.
>
>
>
> THOMAS (GEOFF) KNIGHT
> THOMAS KNIGHT TURBOS
> BOOSTHEAD.COM
> 786-243-2000
> 22050 SW 155 AVE
> MIAMI, FL
> 33170
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
From: Valdosta, GA, US
Re: (OTT)
I still think it would be a waste. Think about all the weight you will add. Nitrous doesnt weight more than 25 lbs total. So I'd rather have nitrous than another 100 or so lbs just sitting there when I am not using it. Plus the concept to me is just gay! 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
From: Sportscar Heaven, England
Re: (atsturbo)
No offence inteded to you company but I've seen various electric forms of FI and I have yet to see one that has been proven.
-
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by biglew »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't seem anything like the surbo, what is the surbo? A vaccum? There isn't tech much info on the site just a bunch of testamonials. The ESC is based of an eaton twin rotor. It doesn't seem like the concepts match. Is there anything link with more tech info on the surbo? And where did your info come from about the ESC?</TD></TR></TABLE>
biglew - The Surbo used to be 2 or 3 electric fans in pipes that were literally pc fans! THhese could no way push the air required like a method of forced induction.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
The most common ESC 'ripoff' that is sold normally has some weask-asfan inside; Not quite the high grade motors stated on GN's sight.
The new improved surbo works on hopes and dreams. It has no real theory behind it and tech info is inaccurate. E.G. Their fake speed & gear graph apparently by some miracle the surbo increases your redline speed in each gear!
This is incorrect as it is dependant on the gear ratios.
Also it seems very psycological trying to use strange pictures to depict various mumbo jumbo.
Modified by OTT at 5:18 AM 1/24/2004
-
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by biglew »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't seem anything like the surbo, what is the surbo? A vaccum? There isn't tech much info on the site just a bunch of testamonials. The ESC is based of an eaton twin rotor. It doesn't seem like the concepts match. Is there anything link with more tech info on the surbo? And where did your info come from about the ESC?</TD></TR></TABLE>
biglew - The Surbo used to be 2 or 3 electric fans in pipes that were literally pc fans! THhese could no way push the air required like a method of forced induction.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
The most common ESC 'ripoff' that is sold normally has some weask-asfan inside; Not quite the high grade motors stated on GN's sight.
The new improved surbo works on hopes and dreams. It has no real theory behind it and tech info is inaccurate. E.G. Their fake speed & gear graph apparently by some miracle the surbo increases your redline speed in each gear!
This is incorrect as it is dependant on the gear ratios.
Also it seems very psycological trying to use strange pictures to depict various mumbo jumbo.
Modified by OTT at 5:18 AM 1/24/2004
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
From: Sportscar Heaven, England
Apologies to you Geoff as fair enough I should have asked you some of my questions before assuming a couple of things.
If what you imply is true and this can efficiently produce good power then I believe you will be the first person to actually create a viable form of electric forced-induction. I will be very impressed If this is the case.
Questions; so here goes:
1. Do you upgrade the stock charging system wires?
2. Are the batterys Dry-Cell?
3. Hows does your ESC behave out of boost, does it have some kind of a by-pass valve or does it cause a bottle neck in the system?
4. Have you measured intake charge temperatures yet and what are they?
5. Is there any way a few 1-Farad capacitors could be integrated into the system to improve re-charging times?
6. What is the difference between the drag sys and the standard sys? motor?
7. Whats the maximum PSI it can safely produce regularly
8. Any intercooling possibilities
Ive gotta say Im still a lttle skeptical but I see your poing about the weight; I was not considering the cooling equipment weight.
Do you have any videos you can post on the site showing a car off then on boost?
biglew - The Surbo used to be 2 or 3 electric fans in pipes that were literally pc fans! THhese could no way push the air required like a method of forced induction.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
If what you imply is true and this can efficiently produce good power then I believe you will be the first person to actually create a viable form of electric forced-induction. I will be very impressed If this is the case.
Questions; so here goes:
1. Do you upgrade the stock charging system wires?
2. Are the batterys Dry-Cell?
3. Hows does your ESC behave out of boost, does it have some kind of a by-pass valve or does it cause a bottle neck in the system?
4. Have you measured intake charge temperatures yet and what are they?
5. Is there any way a few 1-Farad capacitors could be integrated into the system to improve re-charging times?
6. What is the difference between the drag sys and the standard sys? motor?
7. Whats the maximum PSI it can safely produce regularly
8. Any intercooling possibilities
Ive gotta say Im still a lttle skeptical but I see your poing about the weight; I was not considering the cooling equipment weight.
Do you have any videos you can post on the site showing a car off then on boost?
biglew - The Surbo used to be 2 or 3 electric fans in pipes that were literally pc fans! THhese could no way push the air required like a method of forced induction.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
Re: (OTT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OTT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">biglew - The Surbo used to be 2 or 3 electric fans in pipes that were literally pc fans! THhese could no way push the air required like a method of forced induction.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
</TD></TR></TABLE>OK I can see where you're coming from about the Surbo. I agree with you about those 100% I have actually heard of this or similar systems I just didn't know the name. And yes that **** is laughable at best.
Also with all the ******** coming out with hack products like the Surbo or the one where you just put a propeller in your intake tube, or the morons on ebay selling those purge blowers for boat engines,I can understand anyone's skepticism but I also know that Geoff Knight is a well known and respected name in the world of forced induction. If you do a search on any major search engine with his name or "knight turbo" you'll see many people using his conventional turbo and supercharger setups with great satisfaction and success (without any mention of his new electrical sc). That coupled with the fact that the heart of his new product is the eaton twin screw (proven technology) is why I was a little slower to just write this one off.
While I am still a bigger fan of always on forced induction (read JRSC) this is quite an interesting breakthrough nonetheless and I am curious to see how it will develop and I can definately see a market for this product. While I don't agree that most people that use N20 use as much as Geoff claims on his site it does seem that in the long run (if everything stands the test of time) that this will be more cost effective. Only time will tell.
The new one is supposed to create some kind of air vortex but in reality it doesnt sem to do anyhting apart from bottleneck the intake.
My info on ESCs was based on the orig surbo and a few others seen on various boards. GN's has definitly got the hardware but my self im still a little skeptical.
</TD></TR></TABLE>OK I can see where you're coming from about the Surbo. I agree with you about those 100% I have actually heard of this or similar systems I just didn't know the name. And yes that **** is laughable at best.
Also with all the ******** coming out with hack products like the Surbo or the one where you just put a propeller in your intake tube, or the morons on ebay selling those purge blowers for boat engines,I can understand anyone's skepticism but I also know that Geoff Knight is a well known and respected name in the world of forced induction. If you do a search on any major search engine with his name or "knight turbo" you'll see many people using his conventional turbo and supercharger setups with great satisfaction and success (without any mention of his new electrical sc). That coupled with the fact that the heart of his new product is the eaton twin screw (proven technology) is why I was a little slower to just write this one off.
While I am still a bigger fan of always on forced induction (read JRSC) this is quite an interesting breakthrough nonetheless and I am curious to see how it will develop and I can definately see a market for this product. While I don't agree that most people that use N20 use as much as Geoff claims on his site it does seem that in the long run (if everything stands the test of time) that this will be more cost effective. Only time will tell.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
From: Valdosta, GA, US
Re: (H22A EG6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H22A EG6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it has the right principal but way over priced</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
From: Sportscar Heaven, England
Re: (95 lude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point 
lol
I think I would rather be able to boost when i needed it/all the time for the same money JRSC or Turbo
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
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Good point
lolI think I would rather be able to boost when i needed it/all the time for the same money JRSC or Turbo
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,784
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From: CA, USA
Re: (95 lude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
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Not if it uses the same JRSC-style screws and housing. In fact it's more complex because of the added motors, cabling, and batteries. The price seems about right for what it consists of. Pricy maybe compared to the "pc fan" scams, but yeah, it probably takes $3000 no matter how you cut it to moving that much air at that psi.
yeah cause you know damn well it costs them no more than like 300 bucks to build it!
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Not if it uses the same JRSC-style screws and housing. In fact it's more complex because of the added motors, cabling, and batteries. The price seems about right for what it consists of. Pricy maybe compared to the "pc fan" scams, but yeah, it probably takes $3000 no matter how you cut it to moving that much air at that psi.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: (95 lude)
I try to ignore statements that are based on ignorance and stupidity. Just for your foolish comment, I will give you the actual cost to make one of my units.
M62 rotors @ housing---------------------------------------------------------$945
race port above--7 hrs on milling machine and hand porting ($75 hr)---$500
2hp motors (3 used) @ 140 each--------------------------------------------$420
2hp motors rewound for 6+hp ($95 each)----------------------------------$285
three billet gears (one for each motor @ $45 each)-----------------------$135
CNC machined trans ission cases -------------------------------------------$465
assembly stainless bolts & assembly time----(6hrs @ $75)---------------$500
______
$3250
So your idiotic statement shows that while working at Burger King and staying at home with mom you did not do your math homework and instead worked to become 'night shift manager'. Please, at least make statements that are not so ridiculous. I have invested well over half a million dollars into this, and will LOSE over $1000 per unit until 2005 when by sheer numbers the losses become profit (maybe some of you missed that in economics class)
M62 rotors @ housing---------------------------------------------------------$945
race port above--7 hrs on milling machine and hand porting ($75 hr)---$500
2hp motors (3 used) @ 140 each--------------------------------------------$420
2hp motors rewound for 6+hp ($95 each)----------------------------------$285
three billet gears (one for each motor @ $45 each)-----------------------$135
CNC machined trans ission cases -------------------------------------------$465
assembly stainless bolts & assembly time----(6hrs @ $75)---------------$500
______
$3250
So your idiotic statement shows that while working at Burger King and staying at home with mom you did not do your math homework and instead worked to become 'night shift manager'. Please, at least make statements that are not so ridiculous. I have invested well over half a million dollars into this, and will LOSE over $1000 per unit until 2005 when by sheer numbers the losses become profit (maybe some of you missed that in economics class)
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: (OTT)
OK--good questions and I will give good answers:
1. Do you upgrade the stock charging system wires?
If the stock alternator is upgraded to a 200+ amp unit, then a #4 or #2 wire will be required to carry the current to the battery packs.
2. Are the batterys Dry-Cell?
We use the Osyssey 680 sealed lead-acid batteries. These nil=spec batteries can safely discharge and receive inrush currents 300% greater that the MCA ratings of 680 amps per battery
3. Hows does your ESC behave out of boost, does it have some kind of a by-pass valve or does it cause a bottle neck in the system?
We incorperate a 65mm check valve that allows NA drivability like stock, then closes as boost pushes it closed (full boost is in less than 1/10 sec)
4. Have you measured intake charge temperatures yet and what are they?
delta rise with the fully race ported Eatons are 55 degrees ar 5 psi, and 180 degrees at 10 psi.
5. Is there any way a few 1-Farad capacitors could be integrated into the system to improve re-charging times?
We are using some expiramental 350 farad Xstatic batcap hybrids on my Neon racecar. The momentary 1 second discharge from 350 farads has shown a lot of promise. Xstatic is going to build us a 3000 farad cap for my drag racing Neon and my fully built street Eclipse. Caps can be set up in series and in parrallel allowing for a 10-12 sec discharge and full recharging with no inrush limitations at all. I am currently arranging to purchase a 550 amp alternator made by PennTex. So after a 10 second pass the caps will recharge before I make it back to the staging line.
6. What is the difference between the drag sys and the standard sys? motor?
I originally was going to make the base system non-raceported, and use the 5.8hp 24V motors. I found a HUGE hop gain even at 24V by porting, so all are done that way now. The 24-48 volt windings and brushes are more expensive, and for running 48+ volts air cooling of the motors becomes necessary.
7. Whats the maximum PSI it can safely produce regularly
I have made well over 30 psi at 48 volts, and my drag race car will have Neodymium rare earth magnets and run 72 volts @ 55KW. I will launch at 35+ psi and run through the traps at 9000 rpm @ 22+ psi (all electric superchargers will have a reverse linear path for boost taper. Fan laws dictate that if HP is constant, then as airflow increases, pressure decreases (HP=P1 X V)
8. Any intercooling possibilities
My Neon is getting a FMIC that is 28W X 12H X 3 thick. The ESC-1000DR will mount in the footwell where the passenger feet once were, and the batt/caps will be distributed throughout the car for weight distribution.
1. Do you upgrade the stock charging system wires?
If the stock alternator is upgraded to a 200+ amp unit, then a #4 or #2 wire will be required to carry the current to the battery packs.
2. Are the batterys Dry-Cell?
We use the Osyssey 680 sealed lead-acid batteries. These nil=spec batteries can safely discharge and receive inrush currents 300% greater that the MCA ratings of 680 amps per battery
3. Hows does your ESC behave out of boost, does it have some kind of a by-pass valve or does it cause a bottle neck in the system?
We incorperate a 65mm check valve that allows NA drivability like stock, then closes as boost pushes it closed (full boost is in less than 1/10 sec)
4. Have you measured intake charge temperatures yet and what are they?
delta rise with the fully race ported Eatons are 55 degrees ar 5 psi, and 180 degrees at 10 psi.
5. Is there any way a few 1-Farad capacitors could be integrated into the system to improve re-charging times?
We are using some expiramental 350 farad Xstatic batcap hybrids on my Neon racecar. The momentary 1 second discharge from 350 farads has shown a lot of promise. Xstatic is going to build us a 3000 farad cap for my drag racing Neon and my fully built street Eclipse. Caps can be set up in series and in parrallel allowing for a 10-12 sec discharge and full recharging with no inrush limitations at all. I am currently arranging to purchase a 550 amp alternator made by PennTex. So after a 10 second pass the caps will recharge before I make it back to the staging line.
6. What is the difference between the drag sys and the standard sys? motor?
I originally was going to make the base system non-raceported, and use the 5.8hp 24V motors. I found a HUGE hop gain even at 24V by porting, so all are done that way now. The 24-48 volt windings and brushes are more expensive, and for running 48+ volts air cooling of the motors becomes necessary.
7. Whats the maximum PSI it can safely produce regularly
I have made well over 30 psi at 48 volts, and my drag race car will have Neodymium rare earth magnets and run 72 volts @ 55KW. I will launch at 35+ psi and run through the traps at 9000 rpm @ 22+ psi (all electric superchargers will have a reverse linear path for boost taper. Fan laws dictate that if HP is constant, then as airflow increases, pressure decreases (HP=P1 X V)
8. Any intercooling possibilities
My Neon is getting a FMIC that is 28W X 12H X 3 thick. The ESC-1000DR will mount in the footwell where the passenger feet once were, and the batt/caps will be distributed throughout the car for weight distribution.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
For anyone in South Florida, why dont you come to Moroso on Feb 8 and watch my car run? Then you can first hand tell this boards members whether it works or not!!! You will find me on the racer's infield and if you dont see me listen for the blower's high pitch whine. You can hear it from 400ft away. Grey Altima with graphics on the side.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
From: Tacoma, wa
It sounds like an interesting idea.......if you could get a street system to recharge fast that would make it way better.
How is the system activated? Is it similar to nitrous with a WOT switch or is it button controlled in the cockpit?
How is the system activated? Is it similar to nitrous with a WOT switch or is it button controlled in the cockpit?