How many of you guys out there have upgraded your stock ITR sway bars and what setup did you use? I am getting the Mugen ones for mine, but might end up getting the rear only. I have heard that a lot of people upgrade the rear only as a really good autoX setup and leave the front one stock.

Any thoughts/comments from people who've got some experience with this, that would be great.

Any other good sway bar set suggestions?
Thanks!

 

Don't upgrade the front one.

Warren

 

i've been hearing the same thing, leave the front/mugen rear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WarrenB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many of you guys out there have upgraded your stock ITR sway bars and what setup did you use?</TD></TR></TABLE>I did... 21mm LS Integra front bar.

thoughts?
-cheap
-works for me

 

Its always better to mount a smaller in the front than a larger in the rear when the damper/spring combo i stiff enough to not bottom.

How large is the stock swaybar in the front?

 

get the 26mm rear mugen swaybar (370$)
then get the 25mm JDM ITR front swaybar (100$)


that will be a nice setup, just my thoughts on this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jr_istheman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get the 25mm JDM ITR front swaybar (100$)


that will be a nice setup, just my thoughts on this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It will be a nice set up if you like understeer.

Take the front bar out, get your spring rates in order and use a large rear bar. Then the car will turn in. Let the front tires work independently of each other and you'll like the results. Oh, plus you'll save the weight of the front bar.

 

i dunno how mine would do in auto-x or track but i have mugen front and a one similar to the front stock one with bolts on the side and about the same size direct top shock mounting (cut plastic) and a top c-pillar cf and metal one to even out the rear left without a mugen one. I wanted the most rigidity. I cant wait to try it with my new mf-10 rims...(both c -pillar & front mugen are new bars i did't try on stored car yet)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did... 21mm LS Integra front bar.

thoughts?
-cheap
-works for me</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought the LS was a 22mm, then switched to a 24 like the GSR in 97

 

21/22

I have not measured it... but the bushing said 21mm.. and I could be wrong.

 

Sway bar selection depends largely on spring selection. Once the inside-rear tire is off the ground, a larger rear bar won't make much difference.

On a an ITR with stock springs and R-compound tires, the inside rear will come up when cornering. Some people run a larger front bar to keep the car flatter, thereby helping to maintain better camber on the outside front.

I just got my ITR, and I'll be autox'ing at National-level autox events this year. I'm going to start out with the stock sway bar setup, but I plan to try a JDM 25mm front bar after a few events.

Plus, then I'll have something JDM on the car...

Brian Fitzpatrick
#01-1014

 

I had the Mugen 26mm front and rear bars along with Mugen Lowdowns. I loved the way the car handled. It's all a matter of personal preference and spring/damper choice.

Everything is back to stock now and the ride is very nice and smooth.

-kenji

 

My front is totally off right now.. I've been told that the smaller front(LS) and slightly larger rear(JDM or Mugen) are good to run, but I'm still trying to learn how that interacts with spring rates..

Any suggestions on the bars combined with spring rates?

 

The spring rates I am using are 16K Front and 12K rear. I have SWIFT (ZEAL) ID65 springs on A'pexi N1 Type Pro dampers.

I ordered the 26mm Mugen bar today, not sure how long until it will arrive. I am also waiting on a set of Spoon Lower arm bushings for the front.

Some of my other suspension mods are: RIGID 3 point strut tower bar, Spoon Front/Rear lower bars, Spoon Upper rear tower bar, ALEX racing trunk floor bar and am running a set of 215/45/16 AZENIS tires.

When I installed my rear coilovers, I had the problem with the LCA bolt being seized to the bushing, so I have in a new set of JDM Type R LCA's.

 

Where did you get your Rigid 3pt Front Tower Bar?

 

It came through AJ Racing. http://www.aj-racing.com

 

Hmm..... on a double wishbone suspension, doesn't more roll = more camber. And more camber = more (cornering) traction. Seems like adding a front bar is a bad idea

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bfitz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some people run a larger front bar to keep the car flatter, thereby helping to maintain better camber on the outside front.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't upgrade the front one.

Warren</TD></TR></TABLE>agree

 

Jeff, most suspensions gain negative camber in compression relative to the car body, and the double wishbone type gains more than most. However, even though it gains camber relative to the car body, it still loses camber relative to the road. For example, if the car rolls 5 degrees, the suspension likely only compensates with 3 degrees of camber gain. The resulting camber relative to the road, assuming 1 degree of static negative camber, is now 1 degree of positive camber.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by typer_801 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm..... on a double wishbone suspension, doesn't more roll = more camber. And more camber = more (cornering) traction. Seems like adding a front bar is a bad idea

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It will be a nice set up if you like understeer.

Take the front bar out, get your spring rates in order and use a large rear bar. Then the car will turn in. Let the front tires work independently of each other and you'll like the results. Oh, plus you'll save the weight of the front bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agree

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It will be a nice set up if you like understeer.

Take the front bar out, get your spring rates in order and use a large rear bar. Then the car will turn in. Let the front tires work independently of each other and you'll like the results. Oh, plus you'll save the weight of the front bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you recommend for minimum spring rates with the front sway out?

 

Testing will ultimately tell. I only posted to stir the pot as I was reading setup advice for the IS300 the other day and heard a different perspective. Derek Butts was mentioning *not* to increase front sway bar thickness on the IS300 in autocrossing becuase it caused the car to push more even in SP trim. Similar front suspension type and a national championship jacket, so it only makes me wonder if he's onto something or if the cars are too different for it to be relevant.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bfitz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jeff, most suspensions gain negative camber in compression relative to the car body, and the double wishbone type gains more than most. However, even though it gains camber relative to the car body, it still loses camber relative to the road. For example, if the car rolls 5 degrees, the suspension likely only compensates with 3 degrees of camber gain. The resulting camber relative to the road, assuming 1 degree of static negative camber, is now 1 degree of positive camber.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

When did Derek get a Jacket? Not in the IS300. He did get the ProSolo title in DSP this year, but he lost to Fauth at Nationals. Heck, I beat him in my underpowered DS car last year...nevermind that it was only by a few thousandths and he beat me the year before in an automatic.

Of course, the affect of a swaybar change is going to be car dependant. However, if the inside rear tire is off the ground, a bigger front bar should help.

Typically, swaybars affect balance by affecting the amount of weight transfer that occurs on one end of the car relative to the other. Less weight transfer on one end will tend to improve grip on that end, while more weight transfer on the other end will degrade grip on that end. However, in the case that the inside rear wheel is off the ground, a swaybar change cannot affect the amount of weight transfer on either end. The rear weight transfer is complete, and a larger front bar can't cause more weight transfer up front until it gets to the point that the inside rear is on the ground. So, it's only affect should be to keep the car a little bit flatter, which I guarantee will improve front camber -- even with a double-wishbone suspension.

Given the fact that the DS ITR's with stock bars do lift the inside rear significantly, a larger front bar should help steady-state cornering slightly by improving camber. The thing that makes it interesting is corner-exit throttle application. Maybe you can help me here, as I never really watched for this before. Is the rear tire off the ground in medium-speed corner-exit??? I suspect that it's not, so a larger front bar probably will cause some push and/or wheelspin problems in this situation. Is it offset by slightly improved steady-state cornering? Only testing will tell? I have a jdm 25mm bar on the way, but I'm planning to start with the stock bar.