i want to know if i should go with the 585 dollor 11" kit with stock calapars
"This 11" upgrade is designed for cars with the 9.5" brakes and uses the OEM calipers from the 10.2" brake cars to provide you with the most affordable brake upgrade on the market. Using OEM parts, this kit will give you all the braking power you need along with the ease of maintenance you want. Using an aluminum adapter bracket, this kit bolts on in less than 2 hours. Kit includes remanufactured calipers, Axxis Ultimate brake pads, braided steel front brake lines, slotted & drilled rotors, adapter brackets, hub rings, bolts etc. "

or the $824 kit with the 4 pistion willwood

"11" 4 piston upgrade using OEM style slotted & drilled rotors as standard. This kit will provide you with brakes so good your face will hurt from smiling so much. Combining the lightweight 4 piston caliper with an OEM style rotor, this kit will give you all the power you need in a lightweight package, and it fits under most 15" wheels, even the factory wheels!

Kit contains the OEM 11" rotors, slotted & drilled for better performance, 4 piston forged aluminum calipers, aluminum adapter brackets, performance brake pads, braided steel front brake lines, all bolts etc. Drilled or slotted rotors are a no cost option.

Please specify what year Civic/CRX/Del Sol for proper brake lines. "


the car will be used for mostly street driven i do have a B16 with a t3/t4e turbo on the car and the car right now has the stock HF brakes which are not really doing the job. let me know if the 4 piston is worth the extra money and how easy is it going to be to get pads for this willwoods down the road vs stock.

 

I would use a 100% OEM Integra setup if the car is a street car. I would get some Hawk HPS or HP Plus pads or the equivalent from another brand, then some braided steel brake lines. I can't imagine you needing more than that, except for the bling factor.

 

For street driving, just upgrade to at least Integra sized brakes, or if you feel it would be necessary, get the 11" kit with stock calipers. Get solid rotors for which ever kit you go with, though.

I use the Wilwood 12.2" kit for the street and track in my Integra. It may be overkill for daily driving, but they kick *** on the road course. Pads are super easy to find for the Dynalite Caliper and come in a **** load of compounds, too.

 

yeah the only thing i would be worried about is like a few years down the road they are still going to make pads for stock cars but maybe not for aftermarket cali. but seeing the car is a HF and light weight i might just do the 11" rotor but you don't think i should do cross drill or sloted just a solid disk why?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JrCRXHF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah the only thing i would be worried about is like a few years down the road they are still going to make pads for stock cars </TD></TR></TABLE>

You dont have anything to worry about with that.

Use stock calipers and solid rotors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JrCRXHF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah the only thing i would be worried about is like a few years down the road they are still going to make pads for stock cars but maybe not for aftermarket cali. but seeing the car is a HF and light weight i might just do the 11" rotor but you don't think i should do cross drill or sloted just a solid disk why?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

As for pads, I don't ever see a problem with companies ceasing to support Honda OEM or aftermarket calipers. They know that there will always be a market for the pads, and there will be a profit as well. As for Wilwood pads, Raybestos, Hawk and Ferrodo have all invested in the equipment to created the unique Dynalite pad, so I doubt they will ever stop producing within the next 15 years.

Drilled/slotted rotors are for show or maybe full race only. Hell, most race cars don't even use them anymore. Not only are they more susceptable to cracking, but in theory, they would actually provide a decrease in braking performance. You have far less surface area for the pad to contact, so your pads aren't going to be as effective as they could. Also, some poorly drilled/slotted rotors are more apt to chisel you pads to the backing plate than to "de-gas" and "cool" them. Plus, your stock brakes are never going to get hot enough to justify a drilled/slotted rotor. The pad would melt before the holes became effective.

 

Look at the fine print, most of the drilled rotors say somewhere "not for racetrack use". And yet they sell them as race style rotors, hah!

The other thing to consider is using an ITR caliper with the 11" upgrade. If you go with bigger than stock calipers, look into a larger master cylinder. If you stick with the standard one, the pedal travel will be too long. The ITR brakes need a 15" wheel, the standard Integra brakes will fit inside some 13" wheels and most 14".

 

yeah on our FSAE car we cross drill and slot them i would like to see data so i can show them that this might be a good idea for the race car but they might just say they are doing it for weight but oh well. i think the kit i am looking at comes with the "10.2" caliper it is the fast brake kit with the calipers all i know is anything is going to be better then the HF brakes but i just wanted to know how much brake would be enough for me.

 

For what it's worth, my GSR with the stock 10.2" brakes can activate the abs with dot race tires at 120+ on the race track using Carbotech pads. I've heard good things about Cobalt too. Hopefully that is enough brake for your street car. That plus braided lines make for a nice firm pedal with excellent "grab".

I believe your master cylinder is smaller in diameter and will give a soft pedal. I "think" the early 90's or maybe late 80's Prelude one will fit and gives the bigger bore that will give the better feel. I know I have seen that discussed here before, try the search if someone else does not remember.

 

The DA Integra booster and non ABS 15/16" master cylinder bolt right in. You can also use the DA ABS 1" master cylinder (same as the R), but you have to do some custom piping.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMDA9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The DA Integra booster and non ABS 15/16" master cylinder bolt right in. You can also use the DA ABS 1" master cylinder (same as the R), but you have to do some custom piping.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what year integra and type R what is different i mean i have done alot of custom work on this car and a little more custom work would not be all bad. but yet 15/16 is really close to 16/16 = 1" so i don't know if it would be worth it we are talking about a 1700-1800 lb car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JrCRXHF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what year integra </TD></TR></TABLE>

90-93 but like was said, you will need the booster/cylinder assembly. If you just want to change out the cylinder, I think the 91 civic ex sedan is a bolt up and is larger. Or the ~89 prelude master cylinder might work also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you just want to change out the cylinder, I think the 91 civic ex sedan is a bolt up and is larger. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct, it is a 15/16" and it does bolt right up. This is definately the best MC to go with for us Civic guys.

Also, I don't see you needing any more than an Integra setup at all four corners on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

90-93 but like was said, you will need the booster/cylinder assembly. If you just want to change out the cylinder, I think the 91 civic ex sedan is a bolt up and is larger. Or the ~89 prelude master cylinder might work also. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you looking to gain with a larger master cylinder?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
http://www.stoptech.com/whitep...1.htm

1) Line pressure can only be increased by either increasing the mechanical pedal ratio or by decreasing the master cylinder diameter. In either case the pedal travel will be increased.

Clamping force: The clamping force of a caliper is the force exerted on the disc by the caliper pistons. Measured in pounds clamping force, it is the product of brake line pressure, in psi, multiplied by the total piston area of the caliper in square inches. This is true whether the caliper is of fixed or floating design. Increasing the pad area will not increase the clamping force.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What are you looking to gain with a larger master cylinder?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

just less pedal travel.

 

But in doing so you are going to reduce line pressure, which results in less clamping force.

 

i don't think so because you still have the same mechanical advantage it is just that you don't have to travel as far to move the same amount of fluid.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For what it's worth, my GSR with the stock 10.2" brakes can activate the abs with dot race tires at 120+ on the race track using Carbotech pads. I've heard good things about Cobalt too. Hopefully that is enough brake for your street car. That plus braided lines make for a nice firm pedal with excellent "grab".

...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. So many people needlessly upgrade their rotors and calipers, especially for street use. They fail to realise that pads and tires are so much more important. I try to explain to them that if their brake pedal is low, then there's something wrong, and most likely their fluid needs to be bled, but they insist that a big brake kit is what they need for street use on their "performance" tires (apparently Kumho 711/712 is a race tire, and the Ziex and Azenis tires are the same because they're both made by Falken ). It'll be funny to see what they do when their fluid gets old after they install the big brakes... maybe they'll replace their calipers each time.

And something that I'd be worried about is larger rotors on 4x100... The Integra front rotors are the largest diameter that Honda made in 4x100. They went to a wider lug pattern, and usually 5-lug, for all of their larger rotors. I have to think that there's maybe a good reason behind that decision. Obviously, 4x100 is narrower and therefor isn't going to provide as much support as the wider lug patterns. But, is it really a problem? I haven't heard of anyone having a big brake kit come apart on them or anything, but most of the users are street ricers, so I can't help but wonder how suitable they are for track use...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JrCRXHF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't think so because you still have the same mechanical advantage it is just that you don't have to travel as far to move the same amount of fluid.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not according to stoptech

pedal ratio = distance from pivot point to effective center of the footpad / distance of the pivot point to the master cylinder push rod

brake line pressure = pedal ratio / area of master cylinder

clamping force = brake line pressure * total area of the caliper

brake torque = (effective disc radius * clamping force * CF of the pad & rotor) / 12

Increasing the area of the master cylinder decreases brake line pressure, thus decreasing clamping force, thus decreasing brake torque.

 

That is assuming only the master cylinder diameter is changed. If the calipers have been changed to ones with a different diameter piston along with the pad size and the rotor diameter, the fluid requirements of the new caliper along with the necessary pedal force for a given amount of stopping force will change.

If the stock Civic m/c is kept, the pedal effort will be very low, but the travel will be high. The increased effort from the larger diameter m/c can be eliminated by using the correct power booster.

If no other changes are made, a larger m/c will give shorter travel with higher effort. Hydraulics are just a fancy lever with the effort transferred by a fluid. A bigger bar=less effort with more travel for a given amount of work. Just remember that when using factory parts, the m/c, calipers, proportioning valve, and power booster are meant to work together. Know what you are doing if you mix and match instead of using the whole package.