Code 11 on a PM7
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From: South Florida, USA
Code 11 on a PM7
I just got a PM7 ecu for my DOHC ZC and it idles kinda ruff and it flashing code 11. I searched on here and all the ecu codes that seem to be listed skip 11. There's 10 and 12. Here's a list I got from the zcresource.com
-----
My check engine light came on. How do I check to see what is wrong?
Answer: When the ECU detects a problem, it lights up the Check engine light (CEL). Even though you turn off the car and turn the car back on and the CEL is gone, an error code was probably stored in the ECU. Here is what you need to do to identify the code that is stored.
1) Turn on the ignition
2) Pull the carpet away from the ECU (located in the passengers footwell)
3) Count the number of flashes of the LED. There are two types of flashes, a long flash and a short flash, kind of like morse code. Each short flash should be counted as a 'one' and each long code as a ten. So, if you had 3 short flashes and then one long flash the error code would be 13. The ECU can store more than one code, so don't be surprised if you find more than one code.
Here is a list of codes for ODB0 Honda ECUs. They should be the same regardless if you are using a PG7/PM7/PM6, etc.
0 - ECU (Bad ECU)
1 - Oxygen Content (Bad O2 sensor)
3 - Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP Sensor)
5 - Same as 3
4 - Crank Angle
6 - Coolant Temperature
7 - Throttle Angle (TPS)
8 - TDC Position
9 - No. 1 Cylinder Position
10 - Intake Air Temperature (IAT)
12 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation System (EGR)
13 - Atmospheric Pressure
14 - Electronic Air Control
15 - Ignition Output Signal
16 - Fuel Injector
17 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS)
19 - Lock-up control solenoid
20 - Electric Load
Any help would be appreciated.
-----
My check engine light came on. How do I check to see what is wrong?
Answer: When the ECU detects a problem, it lights up the Check engine light (CEL). Even though you turn off the car and turn the car back on and the CEL is gone, an error code was probably stored in the ECU. Here is what you need to do to identify the code that is stored.
1) Turn on the ignition
2) Pull the carpet away from the ECU (located in the passengers footwell)
3) Count the number of flashes of the LED. There are two types of flashes, a long flash and a short flash, kind of like morse code. Each short flash should be counted as a 'one' and each long code as a ten. So, if you had 3 short flashes and then one long flash the error code would be 13. The ECU can store more than one code, so don't be surprised if you find more than one code.
Here is a list of codes for ODB0 Honda ECUs. They should be the same regardless if you are using a PG7/PM7/PM6, etc.
0 - ECU (Bad ECU)
1 - Oxygen Content (Bad O2 sensor)
3 - Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP Sensor)
5 - Same as 3
4 - Crank Angle
6 - Coolant Temperature
7 - Throttle Angle (TPS)
8 - TDC Position
9 - No. 1 Cylinder Position
10 - Intake Air Temperature (IAT)
12 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation System (EGR)
13 - Atmospheric Pressure
14 - Electronic Air Control
15 - Ignition Output Signal
16 - Fuel Injector
17 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS)
19 - Lock-up control solenoid
20 - Electric Load
Any help would be appreciated.
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From: Yankee in Wilmington, NC
Re: Code 11 on a PM7 (t0eKnEe)
you are fucked my friend...that code 11 is for a CO2 sensor, thats what that little thing on the ecu is...they didnt have a o2 sensor for that engine which is a d16a9...sorry man...
Thread Starter
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Posts: 2,452
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From: South Florida, USA
so that ecu doesnt have a speed limiter? But it will not run in limp mode since the check engine light does not come on. So I guess my real question would be, which ecu would I be better off using, my PG7 or the euro PM7?
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From: Yankee in Wilmington, NC
Re: (t0eKnEe)
PG7...the PM7 you have will work, but it run the engine rich as ****...not all EDM PM7's are like that, you have the ecu from the engine that doesnt have the cat. convertor i believe its the D16A9, the counterpart which has the cat. converter is the D16A8 and uses an o2 sensor which you would need...
[i might have the engine numbers backwards for A8 and A9, i always forget which is which since we dont get em over here
]
but the EDM PM7 doesnt have the speed limiter like the JDM PM7...
[i might have the engine numbers backwards for A8 and A9, i always forget which is which since we dont get em over here
]but the EDM PM7 doesnt have the speed limiter like the JDM PM7...
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,452
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From: South Florida, USA
Re: (crxgator)
Check this out, tell me what you guys think? I found a site that explains the differences from the JDM and euro PM7 ecu's.
Brief overview of the Si ECU
The ECU or "Engine Control Unit" for the US or European Spec CRX and Integra are similar but differ in there code. All JDM models are limited to 117mph. I have changed my 88 Si ECU to a 90 Si ECU because of the better fuel and ignition mappings. In simple terms it goes better from 3-5000rpms and revs much smoother to the redline. I also found it makes it easier to drive off from a stand still, much more progressive throttle response low down the rev band.
European and JDM Differences in the ECU
JDM Models are what's known as closed loop ECU's. They use an oxygen sensor in the exhaust manifold to monitor oxygen content. This will tell the ECU if the fuel mixture is too rich or too weak. Using this input the ECU will alter the fuel mixture on the fly to try and keep the ratio at 14:1 or 14 parts air for each part fuel. The system is designed to stay at this ratio because catalytic converters work best in those conditions. Now pro's and con's. The advantage is your fuel mixture will allways be set right, even if you fit an aftermarket intake the ECU will compensate the difference but only to a certain degree. The downside is you cant force higher fueling rates for highly modified engines. In order to do that you have to get the ECU re-programmed, because european models dont use this system they isnt anybody who can unfortunetly.
European Models dont have an oxygen sensor, instead they have a manual idle mixture adjustment clipped onto the side of the ECU. Its basically just a variable resistor, you can only set it if you have a Co meter monitoring your exhaust gases. From there the ECU knows how much to increase the fueling at higher revs and loads by the tables in the ECU. This makes altering the ECU much easier because all you have to do is alter the tables in the EPROM chip. i.e. superchips. The eueopean ECU also has an atmospheric pressure sensor located beside the glove box which the JDM's dont have. There is also another sensor attached to the bulkhead with two vacume lines connecting into the back of the intake manifold. I am yet to figure out what it does.
The ECU gathers information from the following sensors,
Oxygen Sensor : The Oxygen sensor or O2 sensor located on the exhaust manifold is used to measure the oxygen content in the exhaust gases. It outputs a variable voltage signal from 0.1 volts to 0.9 volts. 0.1 being High Oxygen, Lean Mixture and 0.9 being Low Oxygen, Rich Mixture, the ECU monitors this variable voltage to alter the air/fuel mixture. This is done by altering the pulse width to the fuel injectors, which is basically the time they remain open. The ECU tries to maintain a mixture of 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel at all times. The oxygen sensor produces no voltage during the initial warm up period, only when the sensor reaches about 316 degrees Celsius it starts to give out a signal. After the engine reaches normal operating temperature OR has been running for 2 or more minutes AND if the oxygen sensor is producing a steady voltage below .45 at 1,500rpms or greater the ECU will set a Code 1. Code 1 meaning all is well. During the initial warm up period the ECU runs in an "open loop mode" where it controls fuel delivery accordance with a programmed default valve instead of by feedback information from the oxygen sensor. If the Oxygen sensor is unplugged or faulty the ECU will stay in "open loop mode".
Manifold Absolute Pressure : The MAP sensor monitors the pressure in the intake manifold. This signal will vary according to the engines speed and load. It produces a variable voltage of 1.0volts to 1.5 volts at closed throttle (high vacuum), and 4.0volts to 4.5volts at wide throttle (low vacuum). The ECU uses this signal to control fuel delivery and ignition timing.
Cylinder Position Sensor : The Cylinder position sensor determines the position of the cylinder for sequential fuel injection. It is located on the end of the exhaust cam shaft.
Crank Angle Sensor : The crank angle sensor is used to control the timing for the fuel injection and ignition on each cylinder. It also detects the engine RPM speed. This sensor is located inside the distributor.
Top Dead Centre : The Top Dead Centre sensor determines the engine's position during starting. (cranking) This is also located in the distributor.
Coolant Temperature Sensor : The coolant temperature sensor produces a resistance of 2,200-2,700ohms when the engine is cold and 280-350 ohms when the engine is at normal operating temperature. It is located under the distributor on the engine block. (It’s the bigger one of the two sensors)
Throttle Position Sensor : Produces a voltage that varies from 0.5volts to 4.5volts from closed to wide-open throttle. A fixed part of the throttle body.
Intake Air Temperature : Produces a resistance of 1,000-4,000ohms depending on air temperature. Located on the intake manifold above the alternator.
Vehicle Speed Sensor : Is located at the back of the gearbox, it produces a pulsing voltage signal when the vehicle is moving over 3mph. It’s a little unclear as to why the ECU needs to know this on non vtec engines. It is however the means for the speed limiter on an Si to monitor the vehicle speed.
Catalytic Converter Sensor : Is located on the exhaust after the converter. It is mainly used just for the warning light on the bashboard, it lights up if it is unhappy about the content of the air or if the converter is running too hot. Isn't actually connected to the ECU at all. Some performance exhaust systems don’t give you an option to connect the sensor. It which case you can unplug the sensor and remove the bulb from the dashboard.
Emissions Crap,
Catalytic Converter : Lowers the content of hydrocarbon (HC) and Carbon Monoxide (CO) in the exhaust system, downside is it creates a lot of back pressure in the exhaust system.
EVAP : Evaporative emissions control absorbs fuel vapours form the fuel tank and releases them into the intake manifold via a charcoal canister on the bulkhead.
PCV System : Stands for Positive crankcase ventilation. At idle speed the crankcase sucks air in and out via the breather pipe on the rocker cover. This pipe is then connected to the intake pipe before the throttle body . When the engines revs increase and the pressure builds up in the crankcase the pcv valve opens with vents air in from the rocker cover breather and out the breather at the back of the engine beside the oil filter. This pipe goes up through the pcv valve (one way valve) and into the intake manifold. There is a black box bolted to the back of the engine block above the oil filter, this is where the pips joins onto. The box is hollow, its only there to stop oil getting sucked up the pipe into the intake manifold. However it still does at high rpm's leaving you intake manifold dirty inside.
Miscellaneous Sensors / Information:
Clutch Sensor : There is a simple switch sensor on the clutch pedal but I am unsure as to what it does exactly.
That annoying Bong Bong buzzer over 60mph : Inside the dashboard behind the instrument cluster there is a white box with a small round black piezzo buzzer on it. There is a 6 pin yellow cable that plugs into it and a small yellow wire coming out. The big one connects into the ECU, why I don’t know. The small yellow screws onto the back of the speedo. If you disconnect the yellow wire the bong will never bother you again. The box may house the speed limiter. I've never pulled the yellow wire to see. It is possible though that it gets a speed signal from the ECU and tells the ECU when to kick in the rev limiter so the vehicle speed can not rise above 117-120mph.
ECU Part Numbers,
1989 D15B JDM CRX 1.5X SOHC ECU (37700-PM4-912) OKI M83C154 (same as an M80C154 but has 16K of ROM on chip) (OKI83C154S.PDF)
1989 D15B JDM CRX 1.5X SOHC ECU Also had revision (37700-PM4-913).
1990 and onwards had a revised ECU, a 1991 model has an ECU model (37700-PM4-914). The 1990 onwards ecu's seem to run a lot smoother, the Rev Limiter seems less severe aswell. However they do seen to have less torque low down the rev range.
1990 D16A6 US CRX 1.6L SOHC ECU (37820-PM6-L09) OKI M80C154
1989 D16A8/9 EURO CRX 1.6i-16 DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-E031) (643-201115 - 05/04/89)
1988 ZC JDM CRX Si DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-0231) (640-124943 - 18/7/88)
1990 ZC JDM CRX Si DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-000) (640-305632 - 17/4/90)
1990 and onwards also had a revised ECU, The revisions mainly effect fueling at low revs. There is a slight lack of torque but the whole rev band is a lot smoother. The rev limiter was also revised, early 88 ECU's had a very servere rev limiter.
1990 B18B US Integra 1.8L DOHC ECU OKI M80C154
Brief overview of the Si ECU
The ECU or "Engine Control Unit" for the US or European Spec CRX and Integra are similar but differ in there code. All JDM models are limited to 117mph. I have changed my 88 Si ECU to a 90 Si ECU because of the better fuel and ignition mappings. In simple terms it goes better from 3-5000rpms and revs much smoother to the redline. I also found it makes it easier to drive off from a stand still, much more progressive throttle response low down the rev band.
European and JDM Differences in the ECU
JDM Models are what's known as closed loop ECU's. They use an oxygen sensor in the exhaust manifold to monitor oxygen content. This will tell the ECU if the fuel mixture is too rich or too weak. Using this input the ECU will alter the fuel mixture on the fly to try and keep the ratio at 14:1 or 14 parts air for each part fuel. The system is designed to stay at this ratio because catalytic converters work best in those conditions. Now pro's and con's. The advantage is your fuel mixture will allways be set right, even if you fit an aftermarket intake the ECU will compensate the difference but only to a certain degree. The downside is you cant force higher fueling rates for highly modified engines. In order to do that you have to get the ECU re-programmed, because european models dont use this system they isnt anybody who can unfortunetly.
European Models dont have an oxygen sensor, instead they have a manual idle mixture adjustment clipped onto the side of the ECU. Its basically just a variable resistor, you can only set it if you have a Co meter monitoring your exhaust gases. From there the ECU knows how much to increase the fueling at higher revs and loads by the tables in the ECU. This makes altering the ECU much easier because all you have to do is alter the tables in the EPROM chip. i.e. superchips. The eueopean ECU also has an atmospheric pressure sensor located beside the glove box which the JDM's dont have. There is also another sensor attached to the bulkhead with two vacume lines connecting into the back of the intake manifold. I am yet to figure out what it does.
The ECU gathers information from the following sensors,
Oxygen Sensor : The Oxygen sensor or O2 sensor located on the exhaust manifold is used to measure the oxygen content in the exhaust gases. It outputs a variable voltage signal from 0.1 volts to 0.9 volts. 0.1 being High Oxygen, Lean Mixture and 0.9 being Low Oxygen, Rich Mixture, the ECU monitors this variable voltage to alter the air/fuel mixture. This is done by altering the pulse width to the fuel injectors, which is basically the time they remain open. The ECU tries to maintain a mixture of 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel at all times. The oxygen sensor produces no voltage during the initial warm up period, only when the sensor reaches about 316 degrees Celsius it starts to give out a signal. After the engine reaches normal operating temperature OR has been running for 2 or more minutes AND if the oxygen sensor is producing a steady voltage below .45 at 1,500rpms or greater the ECU will set a Code 1. Code 1 meaning all is well. During the initial warm up period the ECU runs in an "open loop mode" where it controls fuel delivery accordance with a programmed default valve instead of by feedback information from the oxygen sensor. If the Oxygen sensor is unplugged or faulty the ECU will stay in "open loop mode".
Manifold Absolute Pressure : The MAP sensor monitors the pressure in the intake manifold. This signal will vary according to the engines speed and load. It produces a variable voltage of 1.0volts to 1.5 volts at closed throttle (high vacuum), and 4.0volts to 4.5volts at wide throttle (low vacuum). The ECU uses this signal to control fuel delivery and ignition timing.
Cylinder Position Sensor : The Cylinder position sensor determines the position of the cylinder for sequential fuel injection. It is located on the end of the exhaust cam shaft.
Crank Angle Sensor : The crank angle sensor is used to control the timing for the fuel injection and ignition on each cylinder. It also detects the engine RPM speed. This sensor is located inside the distributor.
Top Dead Centre : The Top Dead Centre sensor determines the engine's position during starting. (cranking) This is also located in the distributor.
Coolant Temperature Sensor : The coolant temperature sensor produces a resistance of 2,200-2,700ohms when the engine is cold and 280-350 ohms when the engine is at normal operating temperature. It is located under the distributor on the engine block. (It’s the bigger one of the two sensors)
Throttle Position Sensor : Produces a voltage that varies from 0.5volts to 4.5volts from closed to wide-open throttle. A fixed part of the throttle body.
Intake Air Temperature : Produces a resistance of 1,000-4,000ohms depending on air temperature. Located on the intake manifold above the alternator.
Vehicle Speed Sensor : Is located at the back of the gearbox, it produces a pulsing voltage signal when the vehicle is moving over 3mph. It’s a little unclear as to why the ECU needs to know this on non vtec engines. It is however the means for the speed limiter on an Si to monitor the vehicle speed.
Catalytic Converter Sensor : Is located on the exhaust after the converter. It is mainly used just for the warning light on the bashboard, it lights up if it is unhappy about the content of the air or if the converter is running too hot. Isn't actually connected to the ECU at all. Some performance exhaust systems don’t give you an option to connect the sensor. It which case you can unplug the sensor and remove the bulb from the dashboard.
Emissions Crap,
Catalytic Converter : Lowers the content of hydrocarbon (HC) and Carbon Monoxide (CO) in the exhaust system, downside is it creates a lot of back pressure in the exhaust system.
EVAP : Evaporative emissions control absorbs fuel vapours form the fuel tank and releases them into the intake manifold via a charcoal canister on the bulkhead.
PCV System : Stands for Positive crankcase ventilation. At idle speed the crankcase sucks air in and out via the breather pipe on the rocker cover. This pipe is then connected to the intake pipe before the throttle body . When the engines revs increase and the pressure builds up in the crankcase the pcv valve opens with vents air in from the rocker cover breather and out the breather at the back of the engine beside the oil filter. This pipe goes up through the pcv valve (one way valve) and into the intake manifold. There is a black box bolted to the back of the engine block above the oil filter, this is where the pips joins onto. The box is hollow, its only there to stop oil getting sucked up the pipe into the intake manifold. However it still does at high rpm's leaving you intake manifold dirty inside.
Miscellaneous Sensors / Information:
Clutch Sensor : There is a simple switch sensor on the clutch pedal but I am unsure as to what it does exactly.
That annoying Bong Bong buzzer over 60mph : Inside the dashboard behind the instrument cluster there is a white box with a small round black piezzo buzzer on it. There is a 6 pin yellow cable that plugs into it and a small yellow wire coming out. The big one connects into the ECU, why I don’t know. The small yellow screws onto the back of the speedo. If you disconnect the yellow wire the bong will never bother you again. The box may house the speed limiter. I've never pulled the yellow wire to see. It is possible though that it gets a speed signal from the ECU and tells the ECU when to kick in the rev limiter so the vehicle speed can not rise above 117-120mph.
ECU Part Numbers,
1989 D15B JDM CRX 1.5X SOHC ECU (37700-PM4-912) OKI M83C154 (same as an M80C154 but has 16K of ROM on chip) (OKI83C154S.PDF)
1989 D15B JDM CRX 1.5X SOHC ECU Also had revision (37700-PM4-913).
1990 and onwards had a revised ECU, a 1991 model has an ECU model (37700-PM4-914). The 1990 onwards ecu's seem to run a lot smoother, the Rev Limiter seems less severe aswell. However they do seen to have less torque low down the rev range.
1990 D16A6 US CRX 1.6L SOHC ECU (37820-PM6-L09) OKI M80C154
1989 D16A8/9 EURO CRX 1.6i-16 DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-E031) (643-201115 - 05/04/89)
1988 ZC JDM CRX Si DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-0231) (640-124943 - 18/7/88)
1990 ZC JDM CRX Si DOHC ECU (37820-PM7-000) (640-305632 - 17/4/90)
1990 and onwards also had a revised ECU, The revisions mainly effect fueling at low revs. There is a slight lack of torque but the whole rev band is a lot smoother. The rev limiter was also revised, early 88 ECU's had a very servere rev limiter.
1990 B18B US Integra 1.8L DOHC ECU OKI M80C154
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